Chief Wahoo Discussion

[Otsego Mar]

If I ever feel a sense of personal pride because a team I liked changed their logo, just take me out back and put me out of my misery.

You aren't tough enough to be a social justice warrior!

 

[Huber.]

It's very different. Completely different universes. Not sure how you're not seeing that.

How many flips did you do to land your perfect mental gymnastics score?

 

[AZ_]

Lots of strawmen being rammed down people's throats here by the anti-social justice warriors.

 

[The Wizard of Moz]

holy shit AZ just getting manhandled in nearly every thread he enters anymore

The new birdy? Perhaps...

 

[Otsego Mar]

@David.

I answered your question about the Fighting Irish a year ago below. My position on the Celtics and Fighting Irish thing hasn't changed. My post was a response to @Northstar equating the Celtics logo to the Indians logo as you have Notre Dame's.



It's a racist logo. I have zero attachment to it. I won't miss it. I don't usually wear sports apparel anyways, even to games... so I'm not really losing out on my wardrobe here.

It's a case where one of the "mobs" you refer to is right in thinking something is racist or wrong in some fashion.

Whether enough Native Americans in a specific area are bothered by it or not to please enough white people to let the logo go...IDGAF and am not going to get wrapped up into the debate. You have a cartoonish logo with stereotypical features on it that could easily be replaced with something that's not cartoonish and racist.

The end.

If this was as simple as changing the logo to a more accurate representation of a Native American it would have been done long ago.

It's not racist. Don't you just love that big WHITE smile and triangular eyes?

 

[Mr. Orange]

The Celtics and Notre Dame logo is of a mythical being from Irish folk lore. Not an actual human being or real people. It's like arguing that the Washington Wizards logo is racist against magicians. It's not. There are no wizards. (except Kyrie of course)

 

[The Wizard of Moz]

The Celtics and Notre Dame logo is of a mythical being from Irish folk lore. Not an actual human being or real people. It's like arguing that the Washington Wizards logo is racist against magicians. It's not. There are no wizards. (except Kyrie of course)

So Chief Wahoo is a real person? Shouldn't we then just consult him to see whether he is racist or not?

 

[Cratylus]

Are all caricatures racist?

 

[Mr. Orange]

So Chief Wahoo is a real person? Shouldn't we then just consult him to see whether he is racist or not?

I think you missed the point. Let me rephrase. Native Americans exist. They are probably your 100th cousin or something. Leprechauns and Wizards do not exist.

 

[Otsego Mar]

The Celtics and Notre Dame logo is of a mythical being from Irish folk lore. Not an actual human being or real people. It's like arguing that the Washington Wizards logo is racist against magicians. It's not. There are no wizards. (except Kyrie of course)

I am quite surprised that christians haven't made a big stink about the New Jersey Devils yet, to be honest.

Tampa Bay.... I feel your pride.

 

[Soda]

Do you feel pride in this country? I love America and certainly feel pride in the great accomplishments of this country. I love and feel pride in my home state of Ohio too. I root for sports teams that I don't really have anything to do with.

I don't necessarily feel guilt for the genocide of Native Americans, because yeah I didn't do that myself. But it is a part of our history that I take into account rather than just going welp not my problem.

I agree. Definitely not a "welp, not my problem" thing, nor should it be (although it's the most aggravating approach some employees take to work, but I digress). I have pride in Cleveland and in Ohio and in America because of a lot of good that has happened both in the present and, largely, in the past. I don't see it as useless guilt to also feel a little shame in what this country has done in it's past/present, or in how some people in Cleveland conducted themselves before I was around. Now, do I feel like I should be berated about that past? Not at all. I've never advocated or supported those archaic moments of our past.

Plugging your ears and yelling "IT'S NOT RACIST UNLESS I SAY SO" isn't convincing in the least.

Right. There's a inner debate with regard to most topics out there and this one is no different. To not be able to understand and empathize with those who have a different view is dense/shallow. It's the same as plugging your ears and saying, "It's racist no matter what you say!". It breeds a circular argument that doesn't get anywhere and can be avoided if you actually address why they feel the way they feel.

 

[Otsego Mar]

I think you missed the point. Let me rephrase. Native Americans exist. They are probably your 100th cousin or something. Leprechauns and Wizards do not exist.

Barely....

 

[David.]

To be honest, Iook a lot like Chief wahoo. Don't think I even realized he was a native until pretty late. However I was also not a smart boy.

 

[Soda]

I think you missed the point. Let me rephrase. Native Americans exist. They are probably your 100th cousin or something. Leprechauns and Wizards do not exist.

The large point remains, but I'll say that I can't toss-out the notion that the logo of the Fighting Irish (not Leprechauns) going bald with an unkept beard is an offensive caricature. Same thing with everyone's favorite short, stubby, mustached plumber caricature. And, I'll go further to say that it's out of line for anyone from a different background to say otherwise.

 

[The Oi]

Frankly, if you're a bandwagon fan of a team with a stereotype logo...I feel pretty safe in accusing you of cultural appropriation.