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Chief Wahoo Discussion

Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Should Chief Wahoo Go?

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The Oi said:
Frankly, if you're a bandwagon fan of a team with a stereotype logo...I feel pretty safe in accusing you of cultural appropriation.
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That concept is cancer man.

Karl Benz invented the car. Is it OK for black people to drive cars?
 
D-Wreck said:
Clearly I was being hyperbolic, but I felt it was necessary with some obvious points being ignored.

I agree with you, and honestly don't know much about the level of backlash against the Seminole mascot. I live in Ohio, not Florida. Obviously, the Seminole nation does not have to agree with every decision their Chief makes. If the outcry is large enough, yes, I'd agree they should get rid of it. However, with the blessing of the Chief, and a majority of the nation, I don't see any problem with keeping it.

The problem with Chief Wahoo is 1) it's a caricature, and 2) the term Indian is an ignorant slang term.

I apologize for the hyperbolic nature of my previous post, but I'm truly baffled by the people who try to equate Chief Wahoo with the Fighting Irish, or try to claim there's nothing racist about a Red Sambo.
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Indian is not slang, but it did come from Ignorance as Columbus never reached India.

And its just not the Chief of the Seminoles, the whole tribe voted and loved the respect, but that is completely different situation and dont want confused with the name of the Cleveland baseball team nor the Mascot.
 
David. said:
That concept is cancer man.

Karl Benz invented the car. Is it OK for black people to drive cars?
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Henry Ford was a huge anti semite so I personally will not drive Fords.
 
Lee said:
Indian is not slang, but it did come from Ignorance as Columbus never reached India.

And its just not the Chief of the Seminoles, the whole tribe voted and loved the respect, but that is completely different situation and dont want confused with the name of the Cleveland baseball team nor the Mascot.
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I posted an article earlier today about Florida State. I wouldn't say the whole tribe voted and loved the respect.

https://www.thenation.com/article/florida-state-seminoles-champions-racist-mascots/

The agreement is with the Florida Seminole Tribal Council and not the Seminole Nation. The majority of Seminoles don’t even live in Florida. They live in Oklahoma, one of the fruits of the Seminole Wars, the Indian Removal Act and The Trail of Tears. These Oklahoma Seminoles—who, remember, are the majority—oppose the name. On October 26, 2013, the Seminole Nation of Oklahoma’s governing body passed a resolution that read in part, “The Seminole Nation condemns the use of all American Indian sports team mascots in the public school system, by college and university level and by professional teams.”
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Soda said:
Same thing with everyone's favorite short, stubby, mustached plumber caricature.
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I do think the Mario voice is a bit over the top.

But I think that would only be comparable if the Japanese invaded Italy, called the Italian people "Britons", killed most of them, raped their women, then forced those they didn't kill to move to the remote, unarable mountains, and then named a baseball team "The Britons", used the Mario logo, and dressed up as plumbers at games and did the voice.

I mean holy hell, imagine if they did that.
 
It blows my mind that there are actually human beings living in the year two-thousand seventeen that feel like they have any personal accountability for what happened hundreds of years ago.

I'm genuinely awestruck.
 
The Wizard of Moz said:
It blows my mind that there are actually human beings living in the year two-thousand seventeen that feel like they have any personal accountability for what happened hundreds of years ago.

I'm genuinely awestruck.
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The baby boomers could be blamed for almost everything. Including the shitting out of snowflake children or parents of said children.
 
The Wizard of Moz said:
It blows my mind that there are actually human beings living in the year two-thousand seventeen that feel like they have any personal accountability for what happened hundreds of years ago.

I'm genuinely awestruck.
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I don't know who you are talking about, but the Cleveland Indians baseball organization does have accountability for what is happening today with their team. And they are correctly addressing the issue. Finally.

That is what this is about. Today. Now.
 
Mr. Orange said:
I don't know who you are talking about, but the Cleveland Indians baseball organization does have accountability for what is happening today with their team. And they are correctly addressing the issue. Finally.

That is what this is about. Today. Now.
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Congratulations, Cleveland Indians. You done good for the world.

giphy.gif
 
There is a difference between personal opinion and personal free speech vs a large corporation marketing and profiting from a racist and derogatory logo such as Chief Wahoo for almost one hundred years.

My opinions are a little more clouded/nuanced on the name Cleveland Indians itself but I will stand up and cheer the minute they wipe that logo off of every current day product associated with the team.

That being said, it does not stop or take away the right for any who like the logo or have no problem with it personally from wearing the hats and shirts they already own or from going on EBay and buying them if they see fit.
 
I don't see how what happened in the past has relevance as to whether or not a unidimensional representation of a person is racist. That icon is either racist on its own merit or it isn't.

You can have a denigrating representation of white people. The past has no bearing on whether or not it's offensive. I don't think it should be considered when determining whether or not something is racist. What's it got to do with this thing sucking today?
 
People cheering for the logo/name change will be the same people trashing the new look, new name, etc.

Being 25th in attendance, these same people don't even support the team downtown now, but they have a say!!
 
Mr. Orange said:
I do think the Mario voice is a bit over the top.

But I think that would only be comparable if the Japanese invaded Italy, called the Italian people "Britons", killed most of them, raped their women, then forced those they didn't kill to move to the remote, unarable mountains, and then named a baseball team "The Britons", used the Mario logo, and dressed up as plumbers at games and did the voice.

I mean holy hell, imagine if they did that.
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I mean, imagine if you read the first phrase of that statement. Then you may not have completely missed the point. But hey, if you're into telling people what to and not to be offended about, then hello pot.
 
Soda said:
I agree. Definitely not a "welp, not my problem" thing, nor should it be (although it's the most aggravating approach some employees take to work, but I digress). I have pride in Cleveland and in Ohio and in America because of a lot of good that has happened both in the present and, largely, in the past. I don't see it as useless guilt to also feel a little shame in what this country has done in it's past/present, or in how some people in Cleveland conducted themselves before I was around. Now, do I feel like I should be berated about that past? Not at all. I've never advocated or supported those archaic moments of our past.



Right. There's a inner debate with regard to most topics out there and this one is no different. To not be able to understand and empathize with those who have a different view is dense/shallow. It's the same as plugging your ears and saying, "It's racist no matter what you say!". It breeds a circular argument that doesn't get anywhere and can be avoided if you actually address why they feel the way they feel.
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I don't feel any shame. None whatsoever.

Nobody alive had anything to do with Native American genocide, least of all myself.

I agree it should be a topic covered in history classes and taught to our children, buuut...not into the whole guilt trip thing, at all. And please, don't come at me with "the white man is your people and he is responsible!" bullshit. :chuckle:
 
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