Koby Altman

I'mWithDan said:

Somehow this asshole is insulted by being offered $2 million a year to do a job HE HAS NO IDEA HOW TO DO.

And he still has the nerve to air this dirty laundry like he's completely taken back by the amount of money he would make in comparison to people who actually know how to do the job.

Like I said before, I think we dodged a bullet with this falling through.

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Dude is well within his right to negotiate his salary for a job that he has been offered even if you do not think that he is qualified for it. Most people good in business do that same thing. Besides, he is probably staying in a position that will offer him a comparable salary to the offer he refused, for way less hours and stress. Hardly sounds asshole-ish to me. But if you say so....

23Lebron said:

Maybe Billups wasn't worth 5.8 million - but he was only offered about 25% of the salary of the guy he was replacing, which might have stung.

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In no way, shape or form was Billups going to be replacing Griffin. He was not offered a GM job. We still would need to hire and pay an actual working GM. The role Billups would have had would have been along the lines of adviser and front man, something that would allow him to become familiar with the inner workings of an NBA front office. The decisions would still have been made through the GM working with Gilbert, with Gilbert taking Billups' advice into account.

Gilbert was extending Billups a chance to get his feet wet in an NBA front office, to get some OTJ training, and to give Gilbert somewhat of a liaison to the media and the players. To expect a full GM salary to be involved would be unrealistic.

Based on what Griff said the parting of ways had more to do with disagreements over the direction and philosophy of how to build the team.

As for the differences between Griffin and Gilbert? Who really knows without being a fly on the wall when they did talk. Some obvious potential areas of disagreement would seem to be Griffin's penchant for only caring about the offensive side of the ball, and his apparent disregard for the defensive side of the ball. Gilbert came through the years of old school basketball watching the Bulls and Pistons dominate through tough and stingy defenses. Griff clearly was more in favor of wide open, high scoring, 3 point shooting players and the hell with having 2 way players.

I could see that being a clear and strong philosophical disagreement.

I could also see them disagreeing about power and control over the decision making process, and over who had final say over significant roster moves and expenditures. Griffin has always praised Gilbert for the amounts of tax he has paid to fill the roster and rightfully so. But going forward it is likely they didn't see eye to eye about the "go for broke, win now at all costs" type of strategy versus a strategy of taking longer term planning into consideration, and being a bit more fiscally responsible.

I could see Gilbert moving more towards putting some limits on the blank checks he's been writing ever since we made the moves that resulted in getting Kyrie.

As I've said before, the only real problem I see here was the expiration date on Griffin's contract. If I were Gilbert I'd never again allow my GM's contract to expire at that exact time leading up to the draft and free agency periods. If this was all happening during the NBA preseason it wouldn't be so much of a big deal.

I don't really care about Billups. I do care about perception that the team is owned and run by a meddling owner who doesn't have respect for the professionals who did a great job complimenting his 3 All Stars to the tune of a title.

So, letting Griff go (even letting it be a question in the playoffs). Not good.
Being "cheap" on Billups. Not good.
Not having Billups locked up when you parted with Griff. Not good.
Not having someone ready to go when Billups passed. Not good.
Being at the Cubs White House visit. Not good, and kind of strange, and absolutely tone deaf to your star player and basically the value of your franchise. Nevermind that the Cubs also just beat YOUR CITIES TEAM..

Everything on Dan is "explainable" but put all together, and you have the makings of another Lebron decision made all too easy by this guy.

Gilbert is a scum bag of the highest order, but thank the good Lord, Billups didn't accept. Didn't Billups say that he would trade Love straight up for Carmelo? I seem to remember him saying that during the finals and thinking to myself, "Thank goodness you aren't the GM" and then lo and behold they're interviewing him to be the GM/President. Close call.

Posterchild said:

Dude is well within his right to negotiate his salary for a job that he has been offered even if you do not think that he is qualified for it. Most people good in business do that same thing. Besides, he is probably staying in a position that will offer him a comparable salary to the offer he refused, for way less hours and stress. Hardly sounds asshole-ish to me. But if you say so....

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You think ESPN is paying Billups $2 million a year? There is ZERO chance.

And there's also ZERO chance to make $5, $7, $10 million down the road per season.

He's basically saying he's better than more of an entry level salary (and entry level is a laughable term when we are talking $2 mil).

He likely would have got a 4 year-ish deal with a guaranteed $8 million. The chances he sees that money at ESPN are slim to none given how often they lay people off and that doesn't even consider the future earnings he potentially delayed if he was actually good at the job.

There are so few of these positions that it's easy to say "not the right time" but who is realistically offering him a similar job in an FO? The only reason he was being considered was because of his personal relationship with Gilbert. Does he have a similar relationship with any other owner? Where they would let him take the reigns of a championship team with no experience?

Billups severely overplayed his hand and I'm sure he'll really regret it down the road.

Tyrone Slothrop said:

Gilbert is a scum bag of the highest order, but thank the good Lord, Billups didn't accept. Didn't Billups say that he would trade Love straight up for Carmelo? I seem to remember him saying that during the finals and thinking to myself, "Thank goodness you aren't the GM" and then lo and behold they're interviewing him to be the GM/President. Close call.

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Let's not kid ourselves with Dan.

Quicken Loans is a scam. BUT...I think -some- criticism of him as an owner is unwarranted. He's getting called "Cheap" today.

I actually know people that worked within the Cavs office. "cheap" is not an accurate word. If I recall he gave away "Tiffany" something or the other as an employee gift one year there.

I also question the authenticity of the piece. When I'm seeing numbers that counter the narrative that I saw laid about Chris Haynes, and then parroted by Deadspin? I'm having my doubts.

I'mWithDan said:

You think ESPN is paying Billups $2 million a year? There is ZERO chance.

And there's also ZERO chance to make $5, $7, $10 million down the road per season.

He's basically saying he's better than more of an entry level salary (and entry level is a laughable term when we are talking $2 mil).

He likely would have got a 4 year-ish deal with a guaranteed $8 million. The chances he sees that money at ESPN are slim to none given how often they lay people off and that doesn't even consider the future earnings he potentially delayed if he was actually good at the job.

There are so few of these positions that it's easy to say "not the right time" but who is realistically offering him a similar job in an FO? The only reason he was being considered was because of his personal relationship with Gilbert. Does he have a similar relationship with any other owner? Where they would let him take the reigns of a championship team with no experience?

Billups severely overplayed his hand and I'm sure he'll really regret it down the road.

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I don't know the man personally. I don't know if he's qualified for the position or not. All I do know is, he got offered the position and he turned it down. Just like everyone else. Reports say that his networth is in the 45 million range. What makes someone well-respected and successful in their field of business 1) an asshole and 2) that severely overplayed his hand? My guess is, he'll be just fine with his decision.

Not going to lie, if I were a team owner I'd constantly meddle. Haha. I would say the bulk of us would. We all think we know basketball like or better than all GMs. At least we're not Kings fans... Talk about garbage ownership. Dan was part of the reason the franchise has a championship and though he's handled a lot of things horribly we can't take that away from him. He's put a ton of capital and gone as far into the luxury tax. We've been #1 salary wise since like 2013... And I don't think he was the whole reason our team is in cap space hell or asset poor. Blame LeBron for part of that, Rich Paul for part of that, Griffin for some of that. Can't put the blame on one person. If Gilbert held his tongue or at the very least didn't insult LeBron when he left...

Gilbert has been around the NBA as a complete insider for quite awhile now. He has spent more than any other owner to put this team together and to bring a championship to Cleveland. He's the only person who has ever put so much at stake and gotten results.

Yes Lebron plays a huge part in this. But Gilbert was the one who originally bought the team that had Lebron, and when he bought it he knew Lebron's contract would expire when it did.

The bottom line is Lebron and Gilbert got us our championship together no matter how anyone wants to spin it. Griffin played a part as well. All of them contributed for better and for worse.

Very few owners will hand over complete control of all operations and decisions to anyone not named Popovich or Bellicheck. Maybe Gilbert meddles too much, or has in the past. It's his sand box. Anyone making any comment remotely suggesting he's cheap is completely full of shit though.

buzzdog said:

Gilbert has been around the NBA as a complete insider for quite awhile now. He has spent more than any other owner to put this team together and to bring a championship to Cleveland. He's the only person who has ever put so much at stake and gotten results.

Yes Lebron plays a huge part in this. But Gilbert was the one who originally bought the team that had Lebron, and when he bought it he knew Lebron's contract would expire when it did.

The bottom line is Lebron and Gilbert got us our championship together no matter how anyone wants to spin it. Griffin played a part as well. All of them contributed for better and for worse.

Very few owners will hand over complete control of all operations and decisions to anyone not named Popovich or Bellicheck. Maybe Gilbert meddles too much, or has in the past. It's his sand box. Anyone making any comment remotely suggesting he's cheap is completely full of shit though.

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The other thing is that we literally got caught out of nowhere by Golden State. That team came up with no warning whatsoever with two of the best shooters in the history of the NBA, one of who finally was able to stay healthy, had one of the best defensive players who plays a lot bigger than his size and a few really good role players in Livingston and Igoudala. AND, if it weren't for a coaching change that literally discovered the death lineup with Green at the center, LeBron would have beat that Golden State team basically by himself...

In the last 3 years, we've gone 1-2 in the finals, one of those losses missing two of three best players, beating the team with the best single regular season win record of all time, then losing to that same team which replaced a very average player with the second best player in the league while maintaining most of their bench core.

If it were literally any other team in the league, I'd say we could beat them in a 7 game series in the finals. Spurs, don't care (also the only other real competition). We basically are better at every position outside of coaching. The blame will forever fall on the Warriors but somehow we're picking on our own team. Poor timing is all I'm going to chalk it up to.

kookoo said:

The other thing is that we literally got caught out of nowhere by Golden State. That team came up with no warning whatsoever with two of the best shooters in the history of the NBA, one of who finally was able to stay healthy, had one of the best defensive players who plays a lot bigger than his size and a few really good role players in Livingston and Igoudala. AND, if it weren't for a coaching change that literally discovered the death lineup with Green at the center, LeBron would have beat that Golden State team basically by himself...

In the last 3 years, we've gone 1-2 in the finals, one of those losses missing two of three best players, beating the team with the best single regular season win record of all time, then losing to that same team which replaced a very average player with the second best player in the league while maintaining most of their bench core.

If it were literally any other team in the league, I'd say we could beat them in a 7 game series in the finals. Spurs, don't care (also the only other real competition). We basically are better at every position outside of coaching. The blame will forever fall on the Warriors but somehow we're picking on our own team. Poor timing is all I'm going to chalk it up to.

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bottom line is that if not for some bad injury like in 2015 we would have won two in a row, if not for Coward Durant in 2017 we could possibly have three-peated. I do blame Griffin/Gilbert for not showing more urgency last summer after Durant went to GS, and for not correcting certain obvious issues with the team (defense, bench, athletic depth) even over the course of three years. But in a "normal" NBA this team would have been even more historic than it has been. A lot of that is due to Lebron, not Griffin/Gilbert, but they at least they didn't totally screw it up.

kookoo said:

The other thing is that we literally got caught out of nowhere by Golden State. That team came up with no warning whatsoever with two of the best shooters in the history of the NBA,

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Let's do a hypothetical and say GSW was the team that we saw a few years a go. Meaning, they'd run into an opponent in the west, and the three pointing act doesn't work in the post season.

How do the Cavs matchup against the Spurs? Clippers? Thunder? Rockets?

Those...under normal circumstances would be our finals opponent. My view? At the very LEAST we have two titles right now.

cavsfever said:

I do blame Griffin/Gilbert for not showing more urgency last summer after Durant went to GS

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What exactly were our other viable options last summer to counter Durant given our own salary situation, other than breaking the bank on the un-economic retaining of Mozgov and Delly - who couldn't do much in the '16 finals, and we already had a lot of potential market inefficiency in Tristan and JR? Tinkering with the bench is pretty much the only other thing we could do.

BannerYearz said:

What exactly were our other viable options last summer to counter Durant given our own salary situation, other than breaking the bank on the un-economic retaining of Mozgov and Delly - who couldn't do much in the '16 finals, and we already had a lot of potential market inefficiency in Tristan and JR? Tinkering with the bench is pretty much the only other thing we could do.

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Further to that point: the entire team had no sense of urgency until game 3 (until game 4??) of the Finals. They had to let Delly walk for the price, and Moz for the price/performance (though could have had more foresight on Delly the previous offseason, but whatever).

Cavs w/Lebron are hard to GM for, and Gilbert doesn't get that. Sure, life is easy in someways (you will win 50+ and more than likely go to the Finals in the East). But Lebron doesn't commit, making it impossible to take a long view on moves. Plus he makes his disappointment in not overspending clear (I mean, why is anyone killing Airson for letting Mike Miller be taken off life support?), so you have to give guys their money ultimately, you have to spend all draft capitol this year, and on the other side, everyone's looking at you like: hey, why don't we have assets or cap space to get guys to help Lebron??

Maybe Griff didn't focus enough on defense.. but two way players are tough to find, and when you do, expensive to get. Defense-only guys are impossible to play v Golden State.

And finally, Griff ONLY netted first title in Cleveland in 54 years, and was probably a kneecap away from netting 2 titles. Then GS adds Durant by way of fluke (that Lebron and the players union pushed for, BTW, had they eased the cap like the owners wanted, GS would have been same team last year and JR Smith would be making less money) and we're mad at Griff for not drugging up Pritchard last offseason and forcing him to hand over Paul George for a bag of basketballs??

Part of me thinks Gilbert is ready to go back to lottery teams, low payroll and even lower expectations after this year. Probably more profitable.