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The General Terrorist Rampage Thread

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Well supposedly the security guard was not even coming to Paddock's room to begin with, no?

Still extremely weird, we need more details than that. What the hell is the timeline of the rest of it then? It took 18 minutes for anyone else to get up there?
 
Zog said:
Well supposedly the security guard was not even coming to Paddock's room to begin with, no?

Still extremely weird, we need more details than that. What the hell is the timeline of the rest of it then? It took 18 minutes for anyone else to get up there?
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Yeah apparently they were responding to an alarm from a different room, not his, which is different than what was originally reported. Their whole timeline is messed up now that we know the security guard showed up before the shooting.
 
MediumBaller said:
Yeah apparently they were responding to an alarm from a different room, not his, which is different than what was originally reported. Their whole timeline is messed up now that we know the security guard showed up before the shooting.
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Yeah, I guess maybe he saw the guard in his camera and thought that he was the police, thinking they had already figured out he was there. So with that said it took 18 minutes for them to get up there knowing full well exactly where the fire was coming from.

Thankfully that alarm went off and the guard went the route that he did to get to the other room or else this could have been well over 100 people dead. He was probably going to board up his room like he did the stairwell door as well, and make it a lot harder for police to get in (and a lot easier for him to shoot them when they came in).

Honestly from Paddocks' perspective he's a dumbass for shooting at the guard before the guard even got too terribly close to his room. I mean if he knocks on the door, the guard has no idea what's going on and would have been an easy target...

This also explains a lot as far as why the room is so trashed and the guns and magazines seemingly completely disorganized. He probably had another 30 minutes of prep before he intended to actually fire on the crowd. The 6 minutes between the guard and firing on the crowd was probably mostly busting out the windows. To me this also may explain why there is a fare amount of time where no shots are fired while he is reloading mags. Probably didn't have them set up for quick and easy change of gun/mags.

I mentioned this before (that 58 didn't honestly seem like a very high number of casualties given the firepower he had) just based on some quick math of 23 guns * average of 30 rounds/mag = 690 rounds that he could have had ready to fire, only needing to change weapons and not even change mags. Then on top of that he could have loaded a couple thousand or more mags with more ammo. But this really does start to explain some of the delays between his rapid fire to me. He rushed into firing before he could get things organized.

Wow... thank God.
 
Zog said:
Yeah, I guess maybe he saw the guard in his camera and thought that he was the police, thinking they had already figured out he was there. So with that said it took 18 minutes for them to get up there knowing full well exactly where the fire was coming from.

Thankfully that alarm went off and the guard went the route that he did to get to the other room or else this could have been well over 100 people dead. He was probably going to board up his room like he did the stairwell door as well, and make it a lot harder for police to get in (and a lot easier for him to shoot them when they came in).

Honestly from Paddocks' perspective he's a dumbass for shooting at the guard before the guard even got too terribly close to his room. I mean if he knocks on the door, the guard has no idea what's going on and would have been an easy target...

This also explains a lot as far as why the room is so trashed and the guns and magazines seemingly completely disorganized. He probably had another 30 minutes of prep before he intended to actually fire on the crowd. The 6 minutes between the guard and firing on the crowd was probably mostly busting out the windows. To me this also may explain why there is a fare amount of time where no shots are fired while he is reloading mags. Probably didn't have them set up for quick and easy change of gun/mags.

I mentioned this before (that 58 didn't honestly seem like a very high number of casualties given the firepower he had) just based on some quick math of 23 guns * average of 30 rounds/mag = 690 rounds that he could have had ready to fire, only needing to change weapons and not even change mags. Then on top of that he could have loaded a couple thousand or more mags with more ammo. But this really does start to explain some of the delays between his rapid fire to me. He rushed into firing before he could get things organized.

Wow... thank God.
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He checked into the hotel on Thursday though.

It doesn't add up to me that he wasn't prepared. Guy had been preparing for this for a while.

The slow leak of little details makes me think there's a chance that more is going on that what may seem.
 
Zog said:
Yeah, I guess maybe he saw the guard in his camera and thought that he was the police, thinking they had already figured out he was there. So with that said it took 18 minutes for them to get up there knowing full well exactly where the fire was coming from.

Thankfully that alarm went off and the guard went the route that he did to get to the other room or else this could have been well over 100 people dead. He was probably going to board up his room like he did the stairwell door as well, and make it a lot harder for police to get in (and a lot easier for him to shoot them when they came in).

Honestly from Paddocks' perspective he's a dumbass for shooting at the guard before the guard even got too terribly close to his room. I mean if he knocks on the door, the guard has no idea what's going on and would have been an easy target...

This also explains a lot as far as why the room is so trashed and the guns and magazines seemingly completely disorganized. He probably had another 30 minutes of prep before he intended to actually fire on the crowd. The 6 minutes between the guard and firing on the crowd was probably mostly busting out the windows. To me this also may explain why there is a fare amount of time where no shots are fired while he is reloading mags. Probably didn't have them set up for quick and easy change of gun/mags.

I mentioned this before (that 58 didn't honestly seem like a very high number of casualties given the firepower he had) just based on some quick math of 23 guns * average of 30 rounds/mag = 690 rounds that he could have had ready to fire, only needing to change weapons and not even change mags. Then on top of that he could have loaded a couple thousand or more mags with more ammo. But this really does start to explain some of the delays between his rapid fire to me. He rushed into firing before he could get things organized.

Wow... thank God.
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They said that Paddock fired "well over" 200 rounds through his door... How does the security guard only get hit in the leg in that scenario
 
SuperSurge said:
He checked into the hotel on Thursday though.

It doesn't add up to me that he wasn't prepared. Guy had been preparing for this for a while.

The slow leak of little details makes me think there's a chance that more is going on that what may seem.
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Yes, but he also spent all night gambling on Friday and Saturday night, and probably slept during the day. Apparently back when he sued that casino in 2013(?) he said he played all night and slept all day, wouldn't surprise me if he did the same.

Also, I'm sure he had magazines all loaded and whatnot, but there's definitely good reason for him to keep the guns under wraps so to speak just in case someone did come check on his room (see the 12 hour do-not-disturb policy at the Wynn).

He certainly should have had things prepared based on that, I agree, but that doesn't mean he for sure did have things prepared. Seems like his plan was: barricade stairwell door screws & piece of metal), set up cameras, barricade hotel room door, get guns/ammo all set up and organized, break glass, start shooting. But, the guard came before the barricading of his door, he panicked and fired at the guard. Thus why his door was not barricaded (they said it seemed like he couldn't figure it out, but doesn't seem like it'd be too difficult if he did the stairwell), and why there were 6 minutes between firing at the guard and firing at the crowd.
 
MediumBaller said:
They said that Paddock fired "well over" 200 rounds through his door... How does the security guard only get hit in the leg in that scenario
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I've thought that for quite some time to be odd. So I don't really have an answer for you, other than that maybe the security guard took cover and called for help, and then when he opened fire on the crowd, the guard thought he was still shooting? But, there should be bullet holes in the walls and whatnot that confirm that many shots were fired, so...

Who knows, maybe the security guard is the accomplice, but that doesn't really make sense either. If this was an inside job, so to speak, you'd think the guard would not give up his position and instead cause all sorts of other issues to make the situation more chaotic.
 
Zog said:
I've thought that for quite some time to be odd. So I don't really have an answer for you, other than that maybe the security guard took cover and called for help, and then when he opened fire on the crowd, the guard thought he was still shooting? But, there should be bullet holes in the walls and whatnot that confirm that many shots were fired, so...

Who knows, maybe the security guard is the accomplice, but that doesn't really make sense either. If this was an inside job, so to speak, you'd think the guard would not give up his position and instead cause all sorts of other issues to make the situation more chaotic.
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Yeah it's definitely weird to me too. If Paddock shot at him with an automatic weapon, which would seem to be the case with the number of bullets he fired, and was able to hit him in the leg, you'd think there would've been more significant damage to the security guard. You would also think that the guard would call for help if someone had just fired hundreds of rounds through a hotel room's door, and if he had called for help you'd think someone would've responded faster than they did...

It also seems odd to me that they would've gotten this detail wrong. Surely there's security footage of the hallway so they would've been able to see what time the security guard was outside Paddock's room.
 
MediumBaller said:
They said that Paddock fired "well over" 200 rounds through his door... How does the security guard only get hit in the leg in that scenario
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We don't know exactly where the security guard was standing, or whether those 200 rounds were all fired in one burst or not. Given that his bump stocks were on tripods (not sure that's right - bipods make more sense) he may not have swung them around right away. So, he just plastered a whole bunch of semi-auto rounds through it initially, and only then swung around one of the bump-stocked weapons.

So, picture the guard in the hall, the shooter hears him, and fires off a half dozen rounds by whatever semi-automatic weapon was handy. One hits the guard, who goes down but manages to pull himself a bit away from the door. Shooter then just blasts away as he hears talking out in the hall, but he can't see the guy and doesn't know he's on the floor a few feet down the hall. So, all his shots miss.

I can see that happening fairly easily.
 
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Zog said:
I mentioned this before (that 58 didn't honestly seem like a very high number of casualties given the firepower he had) just based on some quick math of 23 guns * average of 30 rounds/mag = 690 rounds that he could have had ready to fire, only needing to change weapons and not even change mags.
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There were over 500 total casualties -- the 58 is the number of the dead. That's not terribly out of line with casualty rates in modern war. For example, U.S. combat deaths have been about 15% of total casualties. And in a situation where the firing is pure area fire, none of it aimed, and some of the casualties likely were from non-gunfire causes such as falls, cuts on debris, etc. that number seems reasonable. It would be even more likely if he was using underpowered .223 rounds instead of 5.56. -- they simply won't do as much damage when they enter the body at that range.
 
Zog said:
Well supposedly the security guard was not even coming to Paddock's room to begin with, no?

Still extremely weird, we need more details than that. What the hell is the timeline of the rest of it then? It took 18 minutes for anyone else to get up there?
Click to expand...

Police generally do not have the same...sense of urgency (or degree of recklessness) that combat troops might. Generally, they are more likely to wait to have all their ducks in a row before making a move. And I've been told that by SWAT guys who happen to be former military. The "doctrine" is just different.
 
The Human Q-Tip said:
Police generally do not have the same...sense of urgency (or degree of recklessness) that combat troops might. Generally, they are more likely to wait to have all their ducks in a row before making a move. And I've been told that by SWAT guys who happen to be former military. The "doctrine" is just different.
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https://www.google.com/amp/www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-vegas-shooting-20171009-story,amp.html

This is what it says in this article.

"Charles "Sid" Heal, a retired Los Angeles County sheriff's commander and tactical expert, said the new timeline “changes the whole perspective of the shooting." Heal said that if police had known immediately that a guard had been shot, they would have rushed the room while the gunman was still firing. He said it seemed to signal a breakdown in communication."

Does that sound right to you or is this guy off? I don't know much about the protocol for this type of situation.
 
MediumBaller said:
https://www.google.com/amp/www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-vegas-shooting-20171009-story,amp.html

This is what it says in this article.

"Charles "Sid" Heal, a retired Los Angeles County sheriff's commander and tactical expert, said the new timeline “changes the whole perspective of the shooting." Heal said that if police had known immediately that a guard had been shot, they would have rushed the room while the gunman was still firing. He said it seemed to signal a breakdown in communication."

Does that sound right to you or is this guy off? I don't know much about the protocol for this type of situation.
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I find it really, really odd that nobody would have called the police immediately upon the guard being shot, but I suppose it is possible. And I also don't understand the logic of what that guy said. So if they knew a guard had been shot, they would have rushed more quickly the guy who was blasting away with automatic weapons? Why wouldn't the blasting away with automatic weapons alone be enough to impart that sense of urgency?

The truth is that given them backing off the last timeline, I don't really have much faith in this one either. So, this is one of those things where I think we're going to have to wait until they get their shit in one sock and produce some kind of comprehensive report, likely with federal involvement.

I'm not accusing anyone of anything nefarious, or suggesting a conspiracy. I think this was such a shocking event that normal procedures in terms of logging events, etc., in a timely manner was not done correctly, so they are trying to construct a timeline based on recollections, and perhaps watches that were not entirely accurate.
 
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