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Leadership Specialist Tyrod Taylor

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I don't have a problem with Taylor but every time we get new management all I hear about is fit. The NT we just traded didn't fit in our 4-3. The guy can play and instead of finding a way we trade him for 25 cents on the dollar. We trade for Taylor who doesn't know our offense and really doesn't fit in what our head coach wants to do for pretty well a 2nd round pick.

We sell good players who don't fit for a quarter and trade for players who don't fit for 50 cents.

We keep a coach and then handcuff him with players that don't fit.

Taylor was dealt for a third round pick, not a second.

Shelton was dealt along with a 5th for a third next year.

The value isn’t much different, and you’ve more or less constructed a fallacy for why Taylor isn’t a fit for this offense, while inventing the belief that he “won’t pull the trigger” on throws downfield while on a team with no deep threats.
 
People are using the “he would’ve gotten a huge contract” as a reason to trade him but then when Phills asked about comp picks the only response was by arizona saying he likely wouldn’t sign a big enough contract

Personally I have no idea what Shelton’s market value will be but that argument cuts both ways. Either we get priced out and get a comp pick or he would be cheap enough that we could likely keep him around for depth.
 
Don’t really need to overthink it.

Shelton was a terrible fit for the defensive scheme and had a fifth year option/free agent year coming up.

They weren’t going to resign him, so they moved him. Had nothing to do with the price tag, and everything to do with the fit.

That knife cuts both ways, because he’s a great fit for New England and will almost certainly play well there.
 
People are using the “he would’ve gotten a huge contract” as a reason to trade him but then when Phills asked about comp picks the only response was by arizona saying he likely wouldn’t sign a big enough contract

Personally I have no idea what Shelton’s market value will be but that argument cuts both ways. Either we get priced out and get a comp pick or he would be cheap enough that we could likely keep him around for depth.

I think comp picks start at the end of round 3, so that Pats pick is going to be higher than any comp pick we would have gotten for Danny.
 
Don’t really need to overthink it.

Shelton was a terrible fit for the defensive scheme and had a fifth year option/free agent year coming up.

They weren’t going to resign him, so they moved him. Had nothing to do with the price tag, and everything to do with the fit.

That knife cuts both ways, because he’s a great fit for New England and will almost certainly play well there.
I disagree on fit. I still thought Shelton was good last year. For an objective opinion he ranked above average by PFF with a grade of 81.5. I'm not in a hurry to get rid of above average players.

Either way this highlights the problem with constant turnover. Sheard, Shelton, Wimbley etc. are guys who had less than 4 years here because we constantly switch fucking defenses. If this group gets fired the same story will happen with our current crop of players we are drafting to fit gregg williams system. Surely you will agree a winning team can't be built with this constant turnover. It has to fucking stop. We can't keep getting rid of the few talented players we have because we switch schemes every 2 years.

Like Keys said, hopefully with Garrett being a cornerstone of the franchise we will keep the defense around him consistent. Hopefully.
 
I disagree on fit. I still thought Shelton was good last year. For an objective opinion he ranked above average by PFF with a grade of 81.5. I'm not in a hurry to get rid of above average players.

Either way this highlights the problem with constant turnover. Sheard, Shelton, Wimbley etc. are guys who had less than 4 years here because we constantly switch fucking defenses. If this group gets fired the same story will happen with our current crop of players we are drafting to fit gregg williams system. Surely you will agree a winning team can't be built with this constant turnover. It has to fucking stop. We can't keep getting rid of the few talented players we have because we switch schemes every 2 years.

Like Keys said, hopefully with Garrett being a cornerstone of the franchise we will keep the defense around him consistent. Hopefully.

When it comes to some of the players you mentioned, specifically the pass rushers, I agree. If a player can beat pass blocks 1 on 1, he can play in any scheme. For my money, being able to generate a pass rush without blitzing is the most valuable skill set in football outside of quality QB play.

Where we disagree in regards to Shelton specifically is how much actual impact a non-pass rushing DT really has. A run stuffing, no pass rush DT is the type of specialist that is becoming more and more obsolete as the NFL continues to change.

Literally every single team in the NFL passed more than they ran in 2017. We're rapidly approaching a point where a "two down" player is actually a "1.5 down" player and before long they might only be a "1 down" player.

Shelton is very good at one specific thing, but he played less than 50% of the snaps for a reason.
 
I disagree on fit. I still thought Shelton was good last year. For an objective opinion he ranked above average by PFF with a grade of 81.5. I'm not in a hurry to get rid of above average players.

Either way this highlights the problem with constant turnover. Sheard, Shelton, Wimbley etc. are guys who had less than 4 years here because we constantly switch fucking defenses. If this group gets fired the same story will happen with our current crop of players we are drafting to fit gregg williams system. Surely you will agree a winning team can't be built with this constant turnover. It has to fucking stop. We can't keep getting rid of the few talented players we have because we switch schemes every 2 years.

Like Keys said, hopefully with Garrett being a cornerstone of the franchise we will keep the defense around him consistent. Hopefully.

His PFF Grade is above average because he played run only downs and was limited to less than half of the defensive snaps.

You can find run stopping production without sacrificing pass rushing skills. I’d imagine that’s what they’re looking for from the position.
 
Well yeah, if we want to look at it that way we got sure can.

But the truth is, Taylor is a better player than AJ is. He's more proven as well, so I'm sure that plays a factor there.

I highly doubt we acquired him mainly because Hue wanted someone else, so to make a statement Dorsey went and got Taylor.

Its simple for me.. Taylor is just better and he will be a ideal quarterback to start and let a rookie sit and watch for at least most of the season.

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When it comes to some of the players you mentioned, specifically the pass rushers, I agree. If a player can beat pass blocks 1 on 1, he can play in any scheme. For my money, being able to generate a pass rush without blitzing is the most valuable skill set in football outside of quality QB play.

Where we disagree in regards to Shelton specifically is how much actual impact a non-pass rushing DT really has. A run stuffing, no pass rush DT is the type of specialist that is becoming more and more obsolete as the NFL continues to change.

Literally every single team in the NFL passed more than they ran in 2017. We're rapidly approaching a point where a "two down" player is actually a "1.5 down" player and before long they might only be a "1 down" player.

Shelton is very good at one specific thing, but he played less than 50% of the snaps for a reason.
This is fair. At the same time, this problem existed when he was drafted. Everyone saw where the league was trending. Most of his pass rushing in college came from bull rushing centers that wouldn't even get camp invites. But different regime.

I still think Shelton as a 1 technique in a 4-3 has value. How much is the debate. Yes he only produced in a specific situation and doing a specific thing. That's because he is a specialist. He was at least good at his one task.

I think a lot is being made about snap count, but defensive lines rotating and specialists isn't something new.

Last year there were 249 defensive linemen that played at least 100 defensive snaps.

Of those 249 only 49 played MORE than 60% of their team's defensive snaps. 19.7% of defensive linemen. The Browns had 2.. Coley at 61.5% and Nassib at 60.3%.

Unfortunately football outsiders data uses each team's entire amount of snaps played instead of just those snaps the teams played in games they were active, but Shelton also only played 14 games last season so the 44% number is actually biased down based on two games missed. On average the Browns defense played 67 snaps per game so an estimate adjusted snap% for Shelton based on missing 2 games would put him at 50.3% of snaps. I really think Football Outsiders data is misleading because of this which almost makes me want to just stop this analysis because I don't have the time to adjust for games missed, but I will lay out a few more numbers but please keep in mind these statistics are biased downward for any player who missed games (for instance, Garrett was only at 48.5% but this is largely impacted by injuries)

Anyway,

84/249 DL played at least 50% of their teams' snaps last season. Slightly over 1/3 of guys (33.7%).


143/249 DL played less percentage of snaps than Shelton last season. Over half of the DL logging at least 100 defensive snaps. (57.4%)

125/249 (50.2%) played less than 40% of snaps

Am I going to lose sleep over Shelton being gone? No. It isn't the end of the world. But using the snap count argument against him ignores that the NFL is basically a DL by committee with only elite defensive linemen logging a anywhere close to 100% of defensive snaps.

Of interest, Poe logged 74.6% of defensive snaps last year. If we sign Poe I will be very happy and I think that would be a big upgrade to Shelton. I guess my final thoughts on this trade depend on what is done in free agency.

One last data disclaimer. Football Outsiders doesn't split their data by DE/DT/NT. DEs in the data likely inflates all of the numbers above, but I don't have time to do a manual split.

Just something to keep in mind when talking about our DL in the future. The NFL has embraced a DL by committee it seems.

@natedagg tagging you because I’m proud of my data disclosures
 
Well yeah, if we want to look at it that way we got sure can.

But the truth is, Taylor is a better player than AJ is. He's more proven as well, so I'm sure that plays a factor there.

I highly doubt we acquired him mainly because Hue wanted someone else, so to make a statement Dorsey went and got Taylor.

Its simple for me.. Taylor is just better and he will be a ideal quarterback to start and let a rookie sit and watch for at least most of the season.

I don't think Miller was implying anything was done to spite Hue.

But the reality of the situation is that the Browns could have signed A.J. McCarron to be their bridge quarterback and given up no draft pick compensation. Hue wanted him. Zampese wanted him. McCarron wanted to be here.

Instead of doing the easy move, Dorsey opted to pay a much heftier price (65th pick for a guy that was going to be released) to get the better quarterback.

Was it the right decision? We'll have to wait and see. Taylor is a nice QB, but the Browns are almost certainly going to draft his eventual replacement at the top of the draft.

I completely understand the idea of adding credibility to your organization ahead of free agency, but giving up the 65th overall pick for a guy who might only end up starting 8-10 games before he's replaced by a rookie is awfully rich.

What's the best case scenario here? Taylor plays extremely well, keeps the rookie on the bench the entire season, and the Browns are able to work out some sort of trade him next offseason for a pick better than 65th overall?
 
Sheldon had zero sacks last season. Okunjobi was the much better player. This team was 0-16 last season and had too many Danny Sheldons on the team. Good riddance. Good job Dorsey, keep em coming.
 

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