Kevin Love - Miami Ground Machine

Brevin Knight said:

https://articles.cleveland.com/cavs...vin_love_--_not.amp?__twitter_impression=true

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Thanks for sharing...but...

We don't post stories from Joe Vardon around these parts. He's a TMZ troll.

His first question to Love in the presser was about his outfit. Lol

Love's deal is far from a bad one. The cap is projected to be around $109M in the 2019 season and $116M in 2020. If the projections hold (and I think it should be pretty close) then he accounts for 26.6% of the cap in 2019, 27% in 2020. Less than that in 2021 (cap would likely be around $122M, so roughly 25.6%) and then roughly around 22.5% in his last year.

To think that he could not have gotten slightly more than the Max for a guy coming off a normal rookie deal (25%) next season when A LOT of teams will have space is silly. The Cavs did not sign him at 35%, the Max he could actually receive. He could've waited it out and tried for 30%.

Also remember that mid-to-late picks are not terrible. Since 1998 only 34 All-Stars have been selected between picks 1 and 5. 25 have been picked from 6-15. 32 after pick 15. 57 All-Stars picked after the Top 5. Many of those were outside of the Top Ten. In almost every draft there is one or more All-Stars picked outside of the lottery. There are some exceptions.

So staying in some form of contention by keeping Love while also getting mid-range picks is far from a disaster. Players WILL be there. It is the task of the front office to find them and properly develop them with great coaching and a great culture. That is a lot harder when you tank and don't have any good vets that can be a positive influence on the young guys.

avs2000 said:

You rather suck miserably to get a high draft pick who if even is all star level would still have us at suck level. If the plan is to draft a superstar like harden. Westbrook paul etc then that is wishful thinking. We are not going to be like 2020. Just work to make this team better

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Well, speaking of that...I'm all for the Coward-Westbrook-Harden plan, in which the first two are late bloomers and allow us to keep drafting high, if Dan continues to invest in success when it comes, unlike what OKC did.

And if KLove can be one of those good players who still keeps us drafting high for just a bit, albeit a later-career player than those three with less upside, but who will still be around when we compete, then that's great too.

I like the comparison I've seen on here, I forget from whom, that OKC and us are basically mirror images; one drafted very well but was unwilling to pay luxury tax, and one was the reverse.

Mr. MacPhisto said:

Love's deal is far from a bad one. The cap is projected to be around $109M in the 2019 season and $116M in 2020. If the projections hold (and I think it should be pretty close) then he accounts for 26.6% of the cap in 2019, 27% in 2020. Less than that in 2021 (cap would likely be around $122M, so roughly 25.6%) and then roughly around 22.5% in his last year.

To think that he could not have gotten slightly more than the Max for a guy coming off a normal rookie deal (25%) next season when A LOT of teams will have space is silly. The Cavs did not sign him at 35%, the Max he could actually receive. He could've waited it out and tried for 30%.

Also remember that mid-to-late picks are not terrible. Since 1998 only 34 All-Stars have been selected between picks 1 and 5. 25 have been picked from 6-15. 32 after pick 15. 57 All-Stars picked after the Top 5. Many of those were outside of the Top Ten. In almost every draft there is one or more All-Stars picked outside of the lottery. There are some exceptions.

So staying in some form of contention by keeping Love while also getting mid-range picks is far from a disaster. Players WILL be there. It is the task of the front office to find them and properly develop them with great coaching and a great culture. That is a lot harder when you tank and don't have any good vets that can be a positive influence on the young guys.

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Well, hold on a minute here. There have been 20 drafts since 98, that's 100 top-5 picks. 34 all-stars in 100 picks means you have a 34% chance of landing an all-star in the top 5.

That leaves 55 picks in EACH draft outside the top 5. 55 picks over 20 years is 1,100 picks. Now, the league only had 29 teams for the first 6 years of your sample, so the total number of picks is really 1,088. Throw in Minnesota forfeiting a pick, and the total is 1,087. 57 all stars in 1,087 picks is 5.2%.

So if you had a top-5 pick in the last 20 years, there's a 34% chance you landed an all-star. If you were outside of the top 5, that drops to 5%! Damn.

red. said:

Totally wasn’t needed.

Anyway. Since you don’t seem to know, there’s no need for further discourse.

Back to my main point. I really do think it would be a disaster for the Cavaliers to trade him after all those quotes and social media post. So I don’t think the Cavs really signed him just to get his value up and trade him later. He’s a lifer.

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Well, being too "loyal" to a fault can hurt a franchise just the same as a player can hurt his legacy chances by committing for too long.

The Dubs got where they did largely because Myers is ruthless and doesn't overvalue being "loyal" to any one player. Steph still has no NTC.

czvo said:

Well, hold on a minute here. There have been 20 drafts since 98, that's 100 top-5 picks. 34 all-stars in 100 picks means you have a 34% chance of landing an all-star in the top 5.

That leaves 55 picks in EACH draft outside the top 5. 55 picks over 20 years is 1,100 picks. Now, the league only had 29 teams for the first 6 years of your sample, so the total number of picks is really 1,088. Throw in Minnesota forfeiting a pick, and the total is 1,087. 57 all stars in 1,087 picks is 5.2%.

So if you had a top-5 pick in the last 20 years, there's a 34% chance you landed an all-star. If you were outside of the top 5, that drops to 5%! Damn.

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Kinda, though mileage may vary. Four of those All-Stars came in the 2003 draft with LeBron, Melo, Wade, and Bosh. Over 10% of those All-Stars came in a single year.

Remove 2003 and it drops to 31.5%. It's also worth remembering that by All-Star we are talking about at least one selection.

Odds are definitely better at the top, but my point is there are plenty of players that can be found elsewhere and someone guys are pretty good but have yet to be All-Stars (Gobert is a prime example of this).

But guys like Paul George, Kawhi Leonard, Jimmy Butler, Draymond Green, Klay Thompson, Gordon Hayward have all been drafted recently outside of the Top 5. Others like Gobert, Donovan Mitchell, etc have as well. And there've been some pretty good non-All-Stars like Patrick Beverly, Hassan Whiteside, Lance Stephenson (who does have his problems, but also has his pluses), Chandler Parsons (before his knees exploded), Evan Fournier, Jeremy Lamb (who had a nice season last year), etc.

It's not always about the All-Star, but they can be found later.

sailfish said:

I like Kevin Love and admire that he wants to stay in Cleveland. That said, there is just no way that he is worth $30 million per year. This is a classic overpay by the Cavaliers, who have a history of handing out bad contracts.

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Look, very few players in the entire NBA are actually worth thirty million a year. The number is in the single digits. However, Kevin Love is a perennial All-Star (injuries have really been the only reason he has five appearances instead of eight or so), and All-Stars get paid max money. Max money right now happens to be around thirty million, give or take about five million depending on years in the league.

Further, Love actually took less than the max to stay here. He left eight million on the table, which may not be a ton in the grand scheme of things, but how often is an All-Star player willing to leave money on the table to stay with the Cavs? LeBron sure as shit wasn't willing to do it, and it's probably going to ensure he retires with three titles instead of four or more.

So while I agree that, on paper, thirty million for Love is an overpay, Love was going to get that money from someone next summer when half the teams in the league will have a lot of cap space and there are probably only going to be a handful of star-caliber players that actually change teams. Hell, he probably would have gotten a full four year max from someone instead of losing out on eight million.

6.19.2016 said:

I like the comparison I've seen on here, I forget from whom, that OKC and us are basically mirror images; one drafted very well but was unwilling to pay luxury tax, and one was the reverse.

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Ha, that was me, thanks for the shout!

Seriously, imagine a universe where OKC's ownership possessed half of Gilbert's willingness to spend; then imagine the Cavs' FO possessing half of Presti's drafting acumen. You're likely looking at two dueling small market dynasties on each side of the country. I would have LOVED to have seen a Cavs/Thunder Finals. Shit would have been lit!

I've kind of come around to the idea of retaining Love; I do think his contract is on the bloated end after, let's face it, a pretty dismal playoff campaign as LeBron's #2. I wonder if any negotiating was done, or if both sides were in instant agreement? Doesn't matter I suppose, I've always the liked the guy and I do take pleasure in seeing him rewarded after all those years of being a "good soldier".

ALL I ASK is that we keep that ATL pick. People can argue and debate about the caliber of player most commonly found in the top-10 vs. outside all they want, but to throw away an asset like that would be heinously errant. We can still do the "culture cultivation" thing while surreptitiously avoiding falling outside the bottom 10.

Seriously Guys. Phuck the 2019 Pick. I wanna play some BALL!

Jack Brickman said:

Look, very few players in the entire NBA are actually worth thirty million a year. The number is in the single digits. However, Kevin Love is a perennial All-Star (injuries have really been the only reason he has five appearances instead of eight or so), and All-Stars get paid max money. Max money right now happens to be around thirty million, give or take about five million depending on years in the league.

Further, Love actually took less than the max to stay here. He left eight million on the table, which may not be a ton in the grand scheme of things, but how often is an All-Star player willing to leave money on the table to stay with the Cavs? LeBron sure as shit wasn't willing to do it, and it's probably going to ensure he retires with three titles instead of four or more.

So while I agree that, on paper, thirty million for Love is an overpay, Love was going to get that money from someone next summer when half the teams in the league will have a lot of cap space and there are probably only going to be a handful of star-caliber players that actually change teams. Hell, he probably would have gotten a full four year max from someone instead of losing out on eight million.

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Some articles on love signing in the PD on tues. love koby’s wanting fountains not drains. For all of their greatness Lebron and Irving are drains. As is JR

No one in that locker room stood up to defend love when attacked by IT and wade. Screw all of the vets tt JR can’t be gone soon enough

I do want that draft pick in 2019. Losing it would be a setback.

chuck0609 said:

I do want that draft pick in 2019. Losing it would be a setback.

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Don't worry, there's still a solid chance the Cavs don't win more than 35 games this year!

Have Kevin play until the ASB while he helps Sexton and Nance develop, maybe we go 22-26 (46% winning percentage). Then sit him due to "injury". Have Nance replace Love as Sexton's main pick and pop guy. Drop winning percentage to maybe 36%, leaves us with 34 wins. That would get us right on the cusp of a top ten pick.

More likely we lose a bigger majority of the games for the first few months as everyone gets acclimated, then we win ~50% for a while, then we hit the rookie wall/Love "injury".

I am happy for Love and that he wants to be part of this. But we aren't going to be elite again for years. So if we aren't going to trade him soon, we at least need to make sure we don't lose this 1st round pick.

Lue finally has all the motivation in the world to play young guys even if it costs us some wins. Because we need that top 10 pick to keep fueling the rebuild.

Funkmastabuck said:

I am happy for Love and that he wants to be part of this. But we aren't going to be elite again for years. So if we aren't going to trade him soon, we at least need to make sure we don't lose this 1st round pick.

Lue finally has all the motivation in the world to play young guys even if it costs us some wins. Because we need that top 10 pick to keep fueling the rebuild.

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The problem is that it's not going to cost wins because the young guys are better than two of last years starters, JR and TT.