LeBron James

IMHO, there is no way that James' 'decision' was not made before his final season began in CLE. In fact, I believe it was probably made when the Space Jam 2 project was greenlighted (a huge project in which James is not only star but Executive Producer).

CLE getting Kemba or some other 'all star' was not going to do it; Gilbert did the right thing looking out for the future of his franchise and keeping the draft pick.

BTW, it also my belief that the true reason Irving pulled the shit he did was James let him know he was definitely gone. JMHO.

If you would like some perspective on why James would prefer to be in LA, is a link to a list of James' and Carter's entertainment projects currently in production:

https://www.indiewire.com/2018/10/lebron-james-every-movie-tv-project-right-now-1202011256/

CommD said:

IMHO, there is no way that James' 'decision' was not made before his final season began in CLE. In fact, I believe it was probably made when the Space Jam 2 project was greenlighted (a huge project in which James is not only star but Executive Producer).

CLE getting Kemba or some other 'all star' was not going to do it; Gilbert did the right thing looking out for the future of his franchise and keeping the draft pick.

BTW, it also my belief that the true reason Irving pulled the shit he did was James let him know he was definitely gone. JMHO.

If you would like some perspective on why James would prefer to be in LA, is a link to a list of James' and Carter's entertainment projects currently in production:

https://www.indiewire.com/2018/10/lebron-james-every-movie-tv-project-right-now-1202011256/

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he knew he was gone and where he was going. Did'nt talk to anyone but the Lakers. Find it hard to believe that there were not back channel talks between lbj's people and the laker organization.

Space Jam is not going to be a career. Not too many of LBJ's projects have succeeded that much. I think he will find when his career is over his Hollywood connections will dry up

avs2000 said:

he knew he was gone and where he was going. Did'nt talk to anyone but the Lakers. Find it hard to believe that there were not back channel talks between lbj's people and the laker organization.

Space Jam is not going to be a career. Not too many of LBJ's projects have succeeded that much. I think he will find when his career is over his Hollywood connections will dry up

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Just like most successful people especially in that field you strike when you are hot . Hopefully he churns out good products so once his career is over they can stand on their own. If not you are right...Those connections will dry up like the Sahara desert.

I am probably going to get allot of hate and dislikes for this, but does anyone still root for Lebron besides me?

No my reasoning is weird, but I think solid. Basically I like to be right.

So I have said for a few years now after our championship that LeBron not Jordan is the GOAT and this year is so proving that. After Jordan left, an under rated Pippen took the same Bulls team with Pete Fucking Meyers replacing Jordan to 55 wins and the Eastern Conference finals. Even without Jordan, the Bulls were contenders. How much did Jordan Elevate his team? 10 wins or so and from a top 4 team to number 1. Allot by NBA standards but nothing to what we see this year.

Lebron leaves the Cavs the go from 2nd best team last year and making the finals to a top 4 worst team in the NBA. Lebron was replaced by Osman in the starting lineup and we have been awful. We were so bad (Even with Love) we started trading away our vets after we said we were trying to compete. I am guessing we will win at least 30 less games without Lebron.

Bonus, Lebron did not play baseball so we have stats from his new team. Right now they are 1 game out of first and playing like contenders. Without Lebron last year, the Lakers were awful. They won 35 games and finished 30 games out of first and missed the playoffs after finishing in 11th place. With Lebron they are on pace to win 52 games, but started slow and are looking to get better during the season. The Lakers really only added Lebron and are contenders and should be 20 games better or so.

Basically if Jordan is the GOAT, why is the impact of him leaving a team soooooo much less of Lebron leaving? Basically if this season continues to play out it will continue to prove me right Lebron is the GOAT although Jordan dick swingers will always come back with the well thought out response of "6"

I can understand not counting Russell or others who played in a different era. There were only 8 teams back then for the first championship. So by the "6" argument standards, the GOAT is Robert Horry, or if they don't like that, remember, Pippen has "6" also but more conference finals appearances than Jordan for the tie breaker.

Lee said:

I am probably going to get allot of hate and dislikes for this, but does anyone still root for Lebron besides me?

No my reasoning is weird, but I think solid. Basically I like to be right.

So I have said for a few years now after our championship that LeBron not Jordan is the GOAT and this year is so proving that. After Jordan left, an under rated Pippen took the same Bulls team with Pete Fucking Meyers replacing Jordan to 55 wins and the Eastern Conference finals. Even without Jordan, the Bulls were contenders. How much did Jordan Elevate his team? 10 wins or so and from a top 4 team to number 1. Allot by NBA standards but nothing to what we see this year.

Lebron leaves the Cavs the go from 2nd best team last year and making the finals to a top 4 worst team in the NBA. Lebron was replaced by Osman in the starting lineup and we have been awful. We were so bad (Even with Love) we started trading away our vets after we said we were trying to compete. I am guessing we will win at least 30 less games without Lebron.

Bonus, Lebron did not play baseball so we have stats from his new team. Right now they are 1 game out of first and playing like contenders. Without Lebron last year, the Lakers were awful. They won 35 games and finished 30 games out of first and missed the playoffs after finishing in 11th place. With Lebron they are on pace to win 52 games, but started slow and are looking to get better during the season. The Lakers really only added Lebron and are contenders and should be 20 games better or so.

Basically if Jordan is the GOAT, why is the impact of him leaving a team soooooo much less of Lebron leaving? Basically if this season continues to play out it will continue to prove me right Lebron is the GOAT although Jordan dick swingers will always come back with the well thought out response of "6"

I can understand not counting Russell or others who played in a different era. There were only 8 teams back then for the first championship. So by the "6" argument standards, the GOAT is Robert Horry, or if they don't like that, remember, Pippen has "6" also but more conference finals appearances than Jordan for the tie breaker.

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All fine. I don't root for him because he isn't on my team. If I have to choose between Leborn and Steph I am choosing Lebron, but other than that, he is a guy on another team.

The one thing I would like to see him do is beat Kareem's scoring record. He deserves it. He deserves all the accolades he gets. I think he is the best too, but I wish he had just lied and acted like he liked the Cavs as much as he acted like he liked other teams.

He has done a lot for the community, but he has only played into the notion that The Cavs are a horrible organization and a bad place to be. Even if he doesn't believe it, he could say Cleveland is great place to play and live etc.

Lee said:

I am probably going to get allot of hate and dislikes for this, but does anyone still root for Lebron besides me?

No my reasoning is weird, but I think solid. Basically I like to be right.

So I have said for a few years now after our championship that LeBron not Jordan is the GOAT and this year is so proving that. After Jordan left, an under rated Pippen took the same Bulls team with Pete Fucking Meyers replacing Jordan to 55 wins and the Eastern Conference finals. Even without Jordan, the Bulls were contenders. How much did Jordan Elevate his team? 10 wins or so and from a top 4 team to number 1. Allot by NBA standards but nothing to what we see this year.

Lebron leaves the Cavs the go from 2nd best team last year and making the finals to a top 4 worst team in the NBA. Lebron was replaced by Osman in the starting lineup and we have been awful. We were so bad (Even with Love) we started trading away our vets after we said we were trying to compete. I am guessing we will win at least 30 less games without Lebron.

Bonus, Lebron did not play baseball so we have stats from his new team. Right now they are 1 game out of first and playing like contenders. Without Lebron last year, the Lakers were awful. They won 35 games and finished 30 games out of first and missed the playoffs after finishing in 11th place. With Lebron they are on pace to win 52 games, but started slow and are looking to get better during the season. The Lakers really only added Lebron and are contenders and should be 20 games better or so.

Basically if Jordan is the GOAT, why is the impact of him leaving a team soooooo much less of Lebron leaving? Basically if this season continues to play out it will continue to prove me right Lebron is the GOAT although Jordan dick swingers will always come back with the well thought out response of "6"

I can understand not counting Russell or others who played in a different era. There were only 8 teams back then for the first championship. So by the "6" argument standards, the GOAT is Robert Horry, or if they don't like that, remember, Pippen has "6" also but more conference finals appearances than Jordan for the tie breaker.

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You're not alone. I'm not so fickle, petty and hypocritical that I can be so heavily invested in LeBron's career and proclaim him to be the GOAT only to backtrack when he leaves my team. Yeah, he left us, again, and I'm not terribly happy about it, but the differences are pretty enormous this time around and we have enough evidence to back up the argument, whereas he was still a kid who hadn't accomplished anything in '10.

I still perceive LeBron as "ours" despite the fact that he saw fit to defect to two other franchises in his career. His jersey will be retired in the rafters at the Q (there will probably be a statue outside of it too if we're being honest), he'll be inducted in Hall as a Cav and his '16 ring will be immortalized as the crowning achievement of his career.

I want LeBron to win MVPs (he currently has a great shot) for 3 different franchises and be the only player to lead said franchises to championships; I want him to break Kareem's seemingly inconquerable scoring record while be the founder, CEO and only member of the 40/11/11 club. As much as some people don't want to admit it, the more illustrious LeBron's career is, the better we look and the more proud we should be.

I really despise the fact that he gave into the league's/ESPN's ravenous attempts to place him in L.A. and I still can't wrap my head around getting behind such a blessed franchise comprised of ignorant Kobe stans. But I do have a vested interest in LeBron's career and his claim to the throne of GOAT. Leading the Lakers to the promised land is just another tentpole in that quest.

Cavatt said:

All fine. I don't root for him because he isn't on my team. If I have to choose between Leborn and Steph I am choosing Lebron, but other than that, he is a guy on another team.

The one thing I would like to see him do is beat Kareem's scoring record. He deserves it. He deserves all the accolades he gets. I think he is the best too, but I wish he had just lied and acted like he liked the Cavs as much as he acted like he liked other teams.

He has done a lot for the community, but he has only played into the notion that The Cavs are a horrible organization and a bad place to be. Even if he doesn't believe it, he could say Cleveland is great place to play and live etc.

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I guess since I left Cleveland area too I give him a pass on that personally. Cleveland isn't the worst city for NBA players to live by THEIR standards, but it is close. While it does have allot to offer, for what most players are looking for its a tough sell as we have learned the hard way with trying to get free agents.

But hey, at least Cleveland is better than Milwaukee and Utah (unless you are a white religious Christian like Korver or Karl Malone)

JMoneyYourHoney said:

I really despise the fact that he gave into the league's/ESPN's ravenous attempts to place him in L.A. and I still can't wrap my head around getting behind such a blessed franchise comprised of ignorant Kobe stans. But I do have a vested interest in LeBron's career and his claim to the throne of GOAT. Leading the Lakers to the promised land is just another tentpole in that quest.

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Holy crap are we on the same page on this. I have a friend who is an intelligent sport fan and thinks Kobe is the 2nd greatest ever because Laker fans have a blind spot for Kobe. I tell him he is like the 5th or 6th best player to even play for the Lakers behind Lebron (now), Magic, Kareem, and probably Shaq and Wilt.

I am a huge Magic fan but always rooted against him after he retired because I do despise typical Laker fans. They are just so ignorant. I don't find them annoying like Golden State fans, just cant understand there ridiculous Blind spot for Kobe.

Lee said:

I guess since I left Cleveland area too I give him a pass on that personally. Cleveland isn't the worst city for NBA players to live by THEIR standards, but it is close. While it does have allot to offer, for what most players are looking for its a tough sell as we have learned the hard way with trying to get free agents.

But hey, at least Cleveland is better than Milwaukee and Utah (unless you are a white religious Christian like Korver or Karl Malone)

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That's exactly my point. He could have been a much better ambassador. No one from Cleveland has more power to affect a narrative than he does.

I don't live there either anymore, but when peopel talk about how shitty it is, I let them know their perceptions are off. Last I lived there was 2005, and it is 1M times better and nicer than then. It's made big strides and Gilbert and Lebron are both part of that, but Lebron has been terrible with his PR in this one area.

He doesn't even have to do much. He should just say how cool it is once in awhile. Perceptions about Cleveland from 1982 are still alive and well pretty much everywhere.

I root for him too. Obviously in a Lakers - Cavs game i want us to win, but if i really want him to keep succeeding and cement his spot as the GOAT. I'd like him to get a few more rings (if it doesn't interfere with us getting one) and hopefully get to 40k-10k-10k, and who knows, even play with/against his son, that would be pretty cool.

I don't live the US so i'm probably not as exposed to fanbases as most of you are, so i guess my opinion is not as affected by them.

Lee said:

I guess since I left Cleveland area too I give him a pass on that personally. Cleveland isn't the worst city for NBA players to live by THEIR standards, but it is close. While it does have allot to offer, for what most players are looking for its a tough sell as we have learned the hard way with trying to get free agents.

But hey, at least Cleveland is better than Milwaukee and Utah (unless you are a white religious Christian like Korver or Karl Malone)

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Holy Eyeballs Batman !!!! Karl Malone was white ?

I dont understand the logic of nobody wants to go to Cleveland. There are only 32 NBA teams and so many open spots for your job. Unless you are a cream of the crop talent you dont often have the luxury to cherry pick where you want to play.

brownindian said:

Holy Eyeballs Batman !!!! Karl Malone was white ?

I dont understand the logic of nobody wants to go to Cleveland. There are only 32 NBA teams and so many open spots for your job. Unless you are a cream of the crop talent you dont often have the luxury to cherry pick where you want to play.

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It was a joke ok Karl Malone.

Free agents don't want to go to Cleveland when given the choice. This wasn't 100% true when Lebron recruited, and there are some like Frye who come because they liked it here, but in general we are toward the bottom of cities where NBA players want to be.

Lee said:

I am probably going to get allot of hate and dislikes for this, but does anyone still root for Lebron besides me?

After Jordan left, an under rated Pippen took the same Bulls team with Pete Fucking Meyers replacing Jordan to 55 wins and the Eastern Conference finals. Even without Jordan, the Bulls were contenders. How much did Jordan Elevate his team? 10 wins or so and from a top 4 team to number 1.

...

Basically if Jordan is the GOAT, why is the impact of him leaving a team soooooo much less of Lebron leaving? Basically if this season continues to play out it will continue to prove me right Lebron is the GOAT although Jordan dick swingers will always come back with the well thought out response of "6"

I can understand not counting Russell or others who played in a different era. There were only 8 teams back then for the first championship. So by the "6" argument standards, the GOAT is Robert Horry, or if they don't like that, remember, Pippen has "6" also but more conference finals appearances than Jordan for the tie breaker.

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Well, the argument generally excludes Horry, Pippen et al because we are talking about #1 options. Mark Madsen/Adam Morrison/Ian Mahinmi > Karl Malone, baby!!

Besides the valid "LeBron is one of us" argument, the other reality is that even the Lakers franchise becomes lovable underdogs when the Greatest Show on hardWood a few hours north wages a nearly unwinnable arms race against them and against Joe-Other-28-Teams-Sixpack.

The reality is GS is tied for 3rd in all time franchise championships, and is overwhelmingly likely to become outright 3rd; they also may close in quite a bit on LAL/BOS.

On the 55 wins argument, one of the funniest facepalms I've seen on rgm is that we can "no longer use it because Kyrie won 55 in Boston."

Btw, is it me or is LeBron somehow bigger now? He always looked big, but now he looks more... ripped? Also bigger shoulders. Idk, he just looks like he's in the best shape of his life, which is pretty incredible.

Lee said:

Holy crap are we on the same page on this. I have a friend who is an intelligent sport fan and thinks Kobe is the 2nd greatest ever because Laker fans have a blind spot for Kobe. I tell him he is like the 5th or 6th best player to even play for the Lakers behind Lebron (now), Magic, Kareem, and probably Shaq and Wilt.

I am a huge Magic fan but always rooted against him after he retired because I do despise typical Laker fans. They are just so ignorant. I don't find them annoying like Golden State fans, just cant understand there ridiculous Blind spot for Kobe.

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With all due respect, Lee, I’m a lifelong (36 years old) Lakers fan who likes to lurk this forum and your assessment about Kobe being 5th of 6th best player on the Lakers and now behind LeBron is absolutely absurd.

Whether you like it or not, Kobe is a legend here in Los Angeles. Despite his past mishaps, and he’s had many, I admit, he was a young man in the early and mid 2000’s and made some dumbass mistakes. I don’t think anyone denies that.

But in terms of his pure basketball genius, you had to witness some of his greatest performances at Staples Center to understand why we here in LA will always think of Kobe as either the greatest, or second greatest Laker to ever don the purple and gold.

He was either a close second option, or first option to 5 titles, 3 consecutive on one occasion, and two on another, for this franchise.

If LeBron wants to be a part of the Laker great pantheon, he needs to win at least one championship first. Even the great Wilt Chamberlain, the man who scored 100 points in one game, was only able to lead the franchise to 1 championship.

Granted, the majority of us are absolutely ecstatic that we now have LeBron. I mean, come on, this is LeBron James we’re talking about. The best player in the league without question. The man who has redefined the game of basketball. Cleveland and Miami legend. Imagine he wins a title for the Lakers....that would be 3 franchises that he would have done that for. Unmatched.

Ultimately, how could you not be excited about having the two most dynamic, and arguably popular players in the NBA in the last 20 years playing for your team?

We are blessed as a franchise, and our fan base isn’t filled with just the band wagoners that yes, we do unfortunately have. We have some of the most hardcore diehard fans in the world. And being a part of that die hard fan base includes being a fan of Kobe for 20 years, which includes the ability to criticize him when he deserves criticism.

But please, just try to be impartial and look at it from a viewpoint that isn’t so blind sided. I’m not arguing that Kobe was or is better then any other player he played against. I’m simply stating that he provided 20 years worth of memorable moments for us, and that making the claim you made is simply not accurate based on that fact alone.