Freddie Kitchens: vaguely employed

MikeOC33 said:

Question for those who remember... who was it that brought Kitchens to Clev? Was it Hue? Haley? Dorsey? Obviously Hue and Dorsey had to agree to initially hire him, but who's guy was he?

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Kitchens was a Todd Haley recommendation. Best thing his short tenure produced by far.

Good for Gregg hope he gets it.

Triple-S said:

(sighs)

The history and team name belong to this franchise and this city.

Yes.

They are.

They may have been garbage since the "return", but this franchise and it's fans? Are indeed a part of NFL lore.

"The Dawg Pound", "Jim Brown", "Leroy Kelly", "Otto Graham", "Ozzie Newsome", "Lou Groza", "Paul Brown", "Marion Motley".

All of it. Those "championship banners", "retired numbers" and the "ring of honor" sure as shit ain't in Baltimore. Jim Brown's statue ain't there.

Now don't make stroke out while barking like a lunatic off his 6th shot of Jack in the muni lot out like this fine gentleman

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5Z-8qNXoNg


Go.
Fucking.
Browns.

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I know that’s the official version, but if we are honest with ourselves, the team we root for right now was an expansion team in 1999, and the team I grew up rooting for moved to Baltimore and won Super Bowls there. Most of the Cleveland Browns players from 1994 ended up in Baltimore in 1995. The Baltimore NFL team, in 1995, was not an expansion team, in any meaningful sense of the word. In fact, they even had gear made up with the name “Baltimore Browns”. I’ve seen those shirts around.

It sucks, I know. But it’s the way things actually went down.

KilgoreTrout said:

I know that’s the official version, but if we are honest with ourselves, the team we root for right now was an expansion team in 1999, and the team I grew up rooting for moved to Baltimore and won Super Bowls there. Most of the Cleveland Browns players from 1994 ended up in Baltimore in 1995. The Baltimore NFL team, in 1995, was not an expansion team, in any meaningful sense of the word. In fact, they even had gear made up with the name “Baltimore Browns”. I’ve seen those shirts around.

It sucks, I know. But it’s the way things actually went down.

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None of which means the entire history of the team went with the 1994 team...

UDcleveland said:

Draft picks don't mean squat if you pick them wrong. See 1999-2017. If you want to say Dorsey saved us, sure, I'll roll with that.

But fuck Hue. He's probably using the exact logic you just laid out right now to take credit for the Browns' turnaround. Seriously, fuck him.

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My point wasn't that we should thank Hue.

My point was that you seemed to blame Hue for our inability to attract an A+ coach. I was simply pointing out that through his incompetence, Hue actually made it more likely we could attract a very good coach because it gave us assets, including the No.1 overall pick. in fact, it may have been all those assets that enabled Haslam to land Dorsey.

Which is all kind of an indirect way of saying that if someone believes we didn't get a great coach, their problem is more with who Dorsey preferred than guys not wanting to coach here.

Can you imagine being a Jets fan right now?

HC: Gase
OC: Loggains
DC: Williams

You have a nice young QB on a cheap deal and loads of cap space and THIS is the coaching group you might be putting out there?

I hope Freddie pulls the anti-Hue and goes down to Norman and picks Lincoln Riley's brain over the summer on his offensive concepts and how Baker is best used. He's already shown himself to be a bit of a chameleon as a playcaller in doing what people want to run and what works best, so hopefully he can incorporate a few more Oklahoma schemes over the summer.

KilgoreTrout said:

I know that’s the official version, but if we are honest with ourselves, the team we root for right now was an expansion team in 1999, and the team I grew up rooting for moved to Baltimore and won Super Bowls there. Most of the Cleveland Browns players from 1994 ended up in Baltimore in 1995. The Baltimore NFL team, in 1995, was not an expansion team, in any meaningful sense of the word. In fact, they even had gear made up with the name “Baltimore Browns”. I’ve seen those shirts around.

It sucks, I know. But it’s the way things actually went down.

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It’s 2019. Don’t really care. We got Baker.

KilgoreTrout said:

I know that’s the official version, but if we are honest with ourselves, the team we root for right now was an expansion team in 1999, and the team I grew up rooting for moved to Baltimore and won Super Bowls there. Most of the Cleveland Browns players from 1994 ended up in Baltimore in 1995. The Baltimore NFL team, in 1995, was not an expansion team, in any meaningful sense of the word. In fact, they even had gear made up with the name “Baltimore Browns”. I’ve seen those shirts around.

It sucks, I know. But it’s the way things actually went down.

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I suppose it depends on how you view it. A franchise is inherently about more than any one person, or more than any particular group of player who happen to be playing for it at a particular time.

The most accurate way to characterize what happened is that the league shut down the Browns for three years, opened a new franchise in Baltimore, transferred our roster there, and then reopened the Browns in 1999.

Plus...I take some personal credit for the name, colors, and history staying here. I worked for the Firm that represented Modell in that whole dispute, and while I wasn't part of the team that worked in it, I did very early on suggest to someone who was on the team that Modell should offer that to the city even though it had never been done before.

So....you're welcome.

The Human Q-Tip said:

My point was that you seemed to blame Hue for our inability to attract an A+ coach.

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I think you might be referring to someone else’s post... Hue had nothing to do with our ability to attract a coach. I just had a reaction to any implication that Hue Jackson deserves credit for anything, ever, lol.

Real Deal said:

Just curious, if Kitchens wasn't your A+, then who the fuck was?

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Bruce Arians as HMFIC, with Kitchens as OC (and in training to succeed as HC).

I'd like Kitchens to get a little more seasoning as OC with continued focus on play calling. Let the HC see the big picture, manage the game, but let the OC call the plays.

Moving forward, my hope is that Kitchens has a right-hand man at his side (on the right side preferably?) who's main focus is game management details. I want my play caller to be 100% invested in the actual play and defensive adjustments.

Maybe Freddie can do it all, but I would've preferred he learn a little under an experienced Arians.

Seems like there's some risk hiring Kitchens. The "next new hotness" often flames out. The guy wasn't even a play caller for a full season and doesn't have NFL head coaching experience. Certainly wasn't a "play it safe" move by a team that could hire anyone they wanted. Seems like something a team might do if they were desperate for fans, not wins. The Browns may have taken a great play caller and put him position where he'll fail.

That said, Kitchens checks off all the boxes that people were looking for. Young guy. Inventive play designs that other teams copied. Kept the QB on his feet like a magician. Good relationship with the Bake-show. Might have been the best way to keep the most exciting coaching talent the team has seen in decades from leaving town.

The move raises the ceiling and lowers the floor for next season.

Certainly will make next September exciting.

Real Deal said:

Just curious, if Kitchens wasn't your A+, then who the fuck was?

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I was all aboard swinging for the fences with this hire, feeling that it was necessary in order for our team to get where I wanted it to go. I felt that we needed to be at the forefront of offensive innovation in the NFL by utilizing many college spread concepts, especially with a quarterback uniquely adept at running such a scheme. I never was going to even entertain a "big picture" coach or a defensive coordinator to be our head coach. I wanted someone who understood what needed to happen on offense to win games.

There are 8 teams remaining in the NFL playoffs. Here's who calls plays for them:

Kansas City Chiefs - Andy Reid
Indianapolis Colts - Frank Reich
New England Patriots - Josh McDaniels
Los Angeles Chargers - Ken Whisenhunt
Los Angeles Rams - Sean McVay
Philadelphia Eagles - Doug Pederson
New Orleans Saints - Sean Payton
Dallas Cowboys - Scott Linehan (Jason Garrett involved)

The four teams eliminated from the playoffs:

Baltimore Ravens - Marty Mornhinweg
Chicago Bears - Matt Nagy
Houston Texans - Bill O'Brien
Seattle Seahwawk - Brain Schottenheimer

Of the teams remaining in the playoffs, 5 of the 8 have head coaches who call the plays and are innovative on that side of the ball.

Of the teams that made the playoffs, 7 of the 12 have head coaches who call the plays.

Now, more than ever, this is where you need to go as the NFL continues to change.


Based on this, my most recent personal list was:

1) Lincoln Riley, 2) Freddie Kitchens, 3) Matt Campbell, 4) Josh McDaniels, 5) Kevin Stefanski, 6) John DeFilippo

As soon as Lincoln Riley was unavailable, I was hoping we'd keep Freddie Kitchens. So, Lincoln Riley was my A+. Freddie was right there, but I give it just a solid A.

CBBI said:

View: https://twitter.com/kentsomers/status/1083374096384049152

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If we switch to the 3-4 I will lose my fucking mind.