2019 Around the MLB

AZ_ · Mar 30, 2019

Ohio said:
But...they don't get what they get. The fans supported the team before and it simply didn't matter. We can sit here all day and pretend it'd be different this time, but there's no reason to believe that.

Regardless of what side of the fence you sit on, it's clear nothing will change at this point. The fans will not support Dolan's product because they think/know he will not invest that support back into his team. Dolan will not invest in his team because he thinks/knows the fans will not support his product.

We can keep doing this stupid dance for another 20 years, or Dolan could just fucking sell the team.

There is no reason to believe that?

There are literally dozens of reasons, economical and societal which explain this. Metro population decline, economic conditions, market conditions, league conditions, baseballs free market, etc.

I have no idea what you WANT them to do.

Why are fans worried about the level of investment in the team rather than THE ACTUAL TEAM THAT IS REALLY FUCKING GOOD?

Kevalier · Mar 30, 2019

Ohio said:
But...they don't get what they get. The fans supported the team before and it simply didn't matter. We can sit here all day and pretend it'd be different this time, but there's no reason to believe that.

Regardless of what side of the fence you sit on, it's clear nothing will change at this point. The fans will not support Dolan's product because they think/know he will not invest that support back into his team. Dolan will not invest in his team because he thinks/knows the fans will not support his product.

We can keep doing this stupid dance for another 20 years, or Dolan could just fucking sell the team.

Dolan did invest in the team though. The payroll was at a franchise record high the past two seasons.

AZ_ · Mar 30, 2019

Kevalier said:
Dolan did invest in the team though. The payroll was at a franchise record high the past two seasons.

Which begs the question of what moving target of investment they need to hit for the 90s fan support to return?

Spoiler: it doesn't exist.

But that's no excuse for sitting out and ignoring great teams out of spite.

Cleveland fans make zero sense.

AZ_ · Mar 30, 2019

Urban said:
Yup, I edited those numbers in.

I think we are on a similar wavelength with the Dolan's hands being somewhat tied by a fanbase not holding up their end of the bargain on a team that has won an average of 96 games for the past 3 years.

But are you not at all upset with ownership to cut back payroll approximately $20m coming off those past 3 seasons, with 2 MVP caliber players and the best rotation in baseball? If they aren't willing to spend money now, when will they? Why keep the team if you are losing money every year?

And I'm not naive enough to be expecting them to make big splashes like AJ Pollock, but there were quite a few players (Adam Jones, Sergio Romo, etc.) that signed very cheap 1 year deals.

I'm sure things (fan's perspective of the Dolans) will only get uglier next year after attendance drops once more and further cuts are made when Bauer and Lindor see another raise in arbitration.

Look, I hear you.

I'm not thrilled with the off-season moves. I think this is the most questionable and frustrating off-season I could ever remember as an Indians fan.

That is completely separate from the argument about attendance, to me. They simply have far more faith in their homegrown talent than I do.

This affinity for Naquin is maddening. Giving $4.5 to Salazar is absurd.

Ohio · Mar 30, 2019

Urban said:
I'm sure things (fan's perspective of the Dolans) will only get uglier next year after attendance drops once more and further cuts are made when Bauer and Lindor see another raise in arbitration.

Yeah, it's going to get worse, starting now.

AZ_ · Mar 30, 2019

Ohio said:
Yeah, it's going to get worse, starting now.

Its profoundly strange watching fans care more about the investment into the team than the results of the team.

Once again, that seems ass backwards.

Lee · Mar 30, 2019

Ohio said:
The fans showed up in the 90s because the team was great and they didn't know the inevitable, which can simply be summarized as: "enjoy them while you have them"

And having a league average payroll for just a couple years obviously isn't enough.

The fans showed up in the 90's for one reason, we didn't have the Browns.

Honestly Cleveland thinks of itself as a sports town, but really cant support more than 2 teams. Lucky for Cleveland the leagues have over expanded and there really nowhere better for the Cavs or Indians to go. Last year Cavs were 2nd, this year they were 8th. If Indians can maintain their level of dominance in the central for another year, maybe some of those Cavs fans spend some money on the Indians.

But right now for several reasons Indians are 3rd in pecking order among fans, and it hurts in a city like Cleveland.

Kevalier · Mar 30, 2019

AZ_ said:
Which begs the question of what moving target of investment they need to hit for the 90s fan support to return?

Spoiler: it doesn't exist.

But that's no excuse for sitting out and ignoring great teams out of spite.

Cleveland fans make zero sense.

Here’s the truth: A sizable amount of people around here either fell out of love with baseball or were never much of a fan of the game. Yes, the ratings have been strong here recently, but the relatively weak attendance is mostly due to population and economic factors along with a larger apathy for the sport than football and, to a lesser extent, basketball. Many of these individuals are seizing upon Dolan’s tone deaf comments and his austerity measures to say “See! This is why we don’t support the Indians!” Plenty of them would rather not be bothered with them and, instead, talk and tweet about the Browns and Cavs.

Again, Dolan deserves criticism for a number of things, but I believe that there are more than a few people, who use him as a reason not to invest their fandom into the Indians rather than acknowledge their lack of passion for the sport.

Ohio · Mar 30, 2019

AZ_ said:
There is no reason to believe that?

There are literally dozens of reasons, economical and societal which explain this. Metro population decline, economic conditions, market conditions, league conditions, baseballs free market, etc.

I have no idea what you WANT them to do.

Why are fans worried about the level of investment in the team rather than THE ACTUAL TEAM THAT IS REALLY FUCKING GOOD?

AZ_ said:
Its profoundly strange watching fans care more about the investment into the team than the results of the team.

Once again, that seems ass backwards.

The reality is that the team isn't good enough, the investment in the team isn't good enough, and the fan support isn't good enough.

Nothing is going to change that at this point. We can blame whoever we want, but it would be best for everyone if the team was sold.

AZ_ · Mar 30, 2019

Ohio said:
The reality is that the team isn't good enough, the investment in the team isn't good enough, and the fan support isn't good enough.

Nothing is going to change that at this point. We can blame whoever we want, but it would be best for everyone if the team was sold.

The teams in the 90s weren't good enough.

For me, it would be best if Cleveland stopped being irrational and supported a winner. Put aside the irrational feelings towards Dolan and investments, just support the team based on their play.

Their marketable talent like Lindor, Josie, Bauer, Clev, Bieber.

Soar · Mar 30, 2019

ALL THIS THREAD NEEDS IS

BRING BACK CHIEF WAHOO!!!

Urban · Mar 30, 2019

AZ_ said:
Look, I hear you.

I'm not thrilled with the off-season moves. I think this is the most questionable and frustrating off-season I could ever remember as an Indians fan.

That is completely separate from the argument about attendance, to me. They simply have far more faith in their homegrown talent than I do.

This affinity for Naquin is maddening. Giving $4.5 to Salazar is absurd.

Salazar made some sense at the time. If I am remembering correctly, he was supposed to be on track for spring training and at the time they probably thought there was a good chance they'd move Bauer or Kluber.

Now, absolute best case scenario, they are paying $5m for an above average reliever for the second half of the season. And at this point I'd wager it's more likely be never pitches another inning for the Indians before buying into the above outcome.

Agreed it being maddening on Naquin, but I am not going to get myself worked up about him because I expect him to be gone when CarGo is ready. One can hope, at least.

Ohio · Mar 30, 2019

AZ_ said:
The teams in the 90s weren't good enough.

For me, it would be best if Cleveland stopped being irrational and supported a winner. Put aside the irrational feelings towards Dolan and investments, just support the team based on their play.

Their marketable talent like Lindor, Josie, Bauer, Clev, Bieber.

That would be nice, but the fans don't feel their support will make a difference. Tough to blame them as that has been a reality before.

Urban · Mar 30, 2019

AZ_ said:
Look, I hear you.

I'm not thrilled with the off-season moves. I think this is the most questionable and frustrating off-season I could ever remember as an Indians fan.

That is completely separate from the argument about attendance, to me. They simply have far more faith in their homegrown talent than I do.

This affinity for Naquin is maddening. Giving $4.5 to Salazar is absurd.

And agreed with the "homegrown talent". It was frustrating to see Alex Wilson, who has a solid track record and pitched well in spring training get passed over for Neil Ramirez. It seems like guys like Wilson and Joyce, who admittedly didn't play well, were brought in and their only chance at making the team was if they performed exceptionally or if there was an injury in front of them.

Here's to holding out hope that Bauer helped improve Neil Ramirez over the offseason

AZ_ · Mar 30, 2019

Ohio said:
That would be nice, but the fans don't feel their support will make a difference. Tough to blame them as that has been a reality before.

That’s on them.

They get what you deserve, and they don’t deserve the winners they have.

2019 Around the MLB

AZ_

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