Your 2019 Cleveland Indians

Real Deal said:

Jose is the Kipnis replacement. Team took off when he was at 2B. Commit to the man at that spot, and maybe we can find this team a Casey Blake at 3B.

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Then who do we put at 3rd? Chang is hurt, so he really won't be available, Mathias, Stamets and Clement who are the next two up in the depth charts. Mathias is above average defensively at 2nd base and average at best at 3rd, Stamets is a pure glove guy with no bat and Clement has barely played off of SS (though he is projected to be an utility guy and has played a bit of 2nd base). We can replace replace Kipnis at second base, but unless we get a 3rd baseman in the trade from Bauer (if we do), Ramirez actually should stay at 3rd. I get people like Ramirez at 2B better, but we do not have internal options to replace him at 3rd. Ramirez leaving 3rd actually I believe would be a mistake since our internal options arent there for 3rd.

More or less what I am saying is this, it will be way way easier to replace 2nd base than it would be 3rd base. We have guys who can play 3B, but could not match the production needed for that position, both with the glove and bat, but we have guys who can match the production at 2nd base with both bat and glove at the end of the day.

sportscoach said:

If we are out of contention, everyone will kind of be on the block, but honestly unless we get overpaid for Hand we wont even think about trading him. This team I feel has a chance to win it all in 2020 at the end of the day, so thats the year to shoot for right now if we are out of it at this season.

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Win it all with this lineup. You are still in Disney world with your perception of the talent level on this team. At the current reality the Tribe should feel lucky just to avoid third place in the division this year and next year. I expect that they are going to have trade Lindor at some point over the next year to 15 months. It is the right thing to do. The window is not there any more. Look with the right moves you could open up a new window by 2022 or 2023 more realistically. You can build around Bieber, pleasac and clevinger while you start breaking in everyday players over the next three years.

AZ_ said:

Does it?

You've contributed nothing but this for the duration of the season. So quite frankly, you don't appear to think it sucks at all.

I'm certainly not going to pretend for any duration that you're an actual fan of this team.

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Believe me I've got nothing personal against Jose Ramirez and I've got nothing bad to say about who he is off the field. I started watching the Indians back in the mid 1990's when I was a small kid and I've been a big fan ever since. I just watch all the games and give my opinion.

Jose has been struggling for awhile now, and this season I just never bought into the idea and optimism that he's going to turn it around and be an All-Star again. He had a couple good games recently but I do not predict it will continue.

When ownership doesn't want to pay great hitters like Michael Brantley and trade Yan Gomes away to save a few bucks, I think they were banking on Jose putting up an MVP caliber season. They took for granted that he would hit 30 homers and 100 RBI. I believe the front office was banking on 3 things: Jose hitting like an All-Star, having great starting pitching, and everyone else in the division to continue to be not very good like in recent years. And non have those have come to pass.

What I hate is the Twins having the best record in baseball. I can't believe it's barely June and were already 10 games out of first place. It's ridiculous, it fucking crazy how good Minnesota is playing, who would have thought they would be on pace to win 110 games. I think the Indians can stay in contention for the second wild card all season. Everyone else in our division is not that great. Houston wins the West, but no one else in that division scares me. Yankees win East, Tampa gets a wild card, that leaves the Tribe, Boston, and maybe someone from the West to compete for second wild-card, so I think Tribe will be in contention all season.

Cavs Need To Win said:

When ownership doesn't want to pay great hitters like Michael Brantley and trade Yan Gomes away to save a few bucks, I think they were banking on Jose putting up an MVP caliber season. They took for granted that he would hit 30 homers and 100 RBI. I believe the front office was banking on 3 things: Jose hitting like an All-Star, having great starting pitching, and everyone else in the division to continue to be not very good like in recent years. And non have those have come to pass.

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Do you not read what others post? I told the board what Brantley's asking price was for the Indians and, news flash, it was over twice as much than he actually signed for. He didn't want to be here any more.

Gomes? The Indians fucking fleeced the Nationals in that deal.

Here's what a few people, like yourself, are missing. The Indians front office knew they needed to move on from the Brantley, Gomes, Kipnis, Allen core. They're entering into a new phase with a younger core. Because of their depth, and a couple of favorable contract situations to key players, they're able to do this without completely bottoming out. I'm not sure why that's so hard for a few of you to understand.

Indians indeed fleeced the Gomes deal. Grade A robbery.

Dolans still look like cheap bastards, but Roberto has a 0.9 WAR vs Gomes 0.3. Probably the only correct move this offseason. It'll be even more correct when they call up Johnson.

Hopefully we can pull an Archer type of haul for Bauer. I like our future OF so I'll target a 3B and arm. I'm looking to move Jose to 2B once and for all.

People love to focus on Michael Brantley.

It’s not like having him would make Ramirez play any better, or the Twins any less out in front.

The difference between a team without Brantley and a team with Brantley is not very much.

ajz20 said:

Win it all with this lineup. You are still in Disney world with your perception of the talent level on this team. At the current reality the Tribe should feel lucky just to avoid third place in the division this year and next year. I expect that they are going to have trade Lindor at some point over the next year to 15 months. It is the right thing to do. The window is not there any more. Look with the right moves you could open up a new window by 2022 or 2023 more realistically. You can build around Bieber, pleasac and clevinger while you start breaking in everyday players over the next three years.

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If we go by your logic, we need then to trade Lindor, Ramirez, Bauer, Kluber etc asap since none of those guys will be on the 2022 and 2023 teams whatsoever. Why keep them any longer if we have no ability to contend until 2022? Why give up 2020 when our roster will be better overall than this season, plus we will have equalish on paper starting pitching and a better bullpen on paper than this season? We are actually still in the wild card at this moment, and if we just put another legit bat or two on this roster, we have the wild card spot. We can sell and buy this season when it comes down to it and still make the wild card with the talent we have.

What I would propose if we aren't going to try for the division is to trade Bauer for the best deal possible, then go and get more young players like we did with Mercado, Luplow, who can play next season, while cutting/moving guys like Kipnis, Martin, O. Perez, Otero, Clippard and bringing up young guys like Sandlin, Nelson etc to fill out the bullpen, guys like Mathias, Bradley etc to round out the roster.

If the FO feels like we can still go for the Division (which right now isn't likely), Seattle has shown they will spend money to get prospect so get an EE type of deal while getting a veteran OF bat.

EdMonix11 said:

Do you not read what others post? I told the board what Brantley's asking price was for the Indians and, news flash, it was over twice as much than he actually signed for. He didn't want to be here any more.

Gomes? The Indians fucking fleeced the Nationals in that deal.

Here's what a few people, like yourself, are missing. The Indians front office knew they needed to move on from the Brantley, Gomes, Kipnis, Allen core. They're entering into a new phase with a younger core. Because of their depth, and a couple of favorable contract situations to key players, they're able to do this without completely bottoming out. I'm not sure why that's so hard for a few of you to understand.

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I did not know that about Brantley, I don't read every single post, I did not know that Brantley did not want to be here anymore, that he took a discount from the Astros.

sportscoach said:

If we go by your logic, we need then to trade Lindor, Ramirez, Bauer, Kluber etc asap since none of those guys will be on the 2022 and 2023 teams whatsoever. Why keep them any longer if we have no ability to contend until 2022? Why give up 2020 when our roster will be better overall than this season, plus we will have equalish on paper starting pitching and a better bullpen on paper than this season? We are actually still in the wild card at this moment, and if we just put another legit bat or two on this roster, we have the wild card spot. We can sell and buy this season when it comes down to it and still make the wild card with the talent we have.

What I would propose if we aren't going to try for the division is to trade Bauer for the best deal possible, then go and get more young players like we did with Mercado, Luplow, who can play next season, while cutting/moving guys like Kipnis, Martin, O. Perez, Otero, Clippard and bringing up young guys like Sandlin, Nelson etc to fill out the bullpen, guys like Mathias, Bradley etc to round out the roster.

If the FO feels like we can still go for the Division (which right now isn't likely), Seattle has shown they will spend money to get prospect so get an EE type of deal while getting a veteran OF bat.

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sportscoach said:

If we go by your logic, we need then to trade Lindor, Ramirez, Bauer, Kluber etc asap since none of those guys will be on the 2022 and 2023 teams whatsoever. Why keep them any longer if we have no ability to contend until 2022? Why give up 2020 when our roster will be better overall than this season, plus we will have equalish on paper starting pitching and a better bullpen on paper than this season? We are actually still in the wild card at this moment, and if we just put another legit bat or two on this roster, we have the wild card spot. We can sell and buy this season when it comes down to it and still make the wild card with the talent we have.

What I would propose if we aren't going to try for the division is to trade Bauer for the best deal possible, then go and get more young players like we did with Mercado, Luplow, who can play next season, while cutting/moving guys like Kipnis, Martin, O. Perez, Otero, Clippard and bringing up young guys like Sandlin, Nelson etc to fill out the bullpen, guys like Mathias, Bradley etc to round out the roster.

If the FO feels like we can still go for the Division (which right now isn't likely), Seattle has shown they will spend money to get prospect so get an EE type of deal while getting a veteran OF bat.

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I don’t think you discredited anything I said lol. Yes trade all vets who won’t be on this roster in the next 3 to 4 years who can return future talent. Replenish your minor League system and come back strong as soon as you can, estimated 3 to 4 years but who knows maybe a year sooner depending on prospects and trades. You won’t play in a World Series this year or next baring a historic unreal run. Time to deal with reality coach. 2016 is gone, that window is over.

AZ_ said:

People love to focus on Michael Brantley.

It’s not like having him would make Ramirez play any better, or the Twins any less out in front.

The difference between a team without Brantley and a team with Brantley is not very much.

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I actually really disagree with Brantley wouldn't make a ton of difference, cause we would be 4-5 games above .500 easily if we had his bat in the lineup. For two reasons, one because he has always shown to put the ball into play, we still take a lot of walks overall as a team, and we had a lot of very close games, you put Brantley in those situations, plus his knowledge and possible ability to get Jose to stop pressing like he was early season, I think our offense would have been more productive.

@Cavs Need To Win

Now that being said, we werent resigning Brantley and it wasn't because Dolan was being cheap, Brantley was just moving on and that is that! Now at the end of the day, the move trading Gomes made actually made a ton of sense because we had two plus defensive catchers, and even if we went with Haase, he is respected on how he receives his pitchers and everything like that, so we actually traded from an area of strength to get more talent and Jefry has a very good arm, Johnson looks like a legit OF prospect and the last guy they got was playing well until he got hurt this season. So Gomes trade was a very good move at the end of the day, and we didn't lose much at all overall by trading Gomes!

sportscoach said:

I actually really disagree with Brantley wouldn't make a ton of difference, cause we would be 4-5 games above .500 easily if we had his bat in the lineup. For two reasons, one because he has always shown to put the ball into play, we still take a lot of walks overall as a team, and we had a lot of very close games, you put Brantley in those situations, plus his knowledge and possible ability to get Jose to stop pressing like he was early season, I think our offense would have been more productive.

@Cavs Need To Win

Now that being said, we werent resigning Brantley and it wasn't because Dolan was being cheap, Brantley was just moving on and that is that! Now at the end of the day, the move trading Gomes made actually made a ton of sense because we had two plus defensive catchers, and even if we went with Haase, he is respected on how he receives his pitchers and everything like that, so we actually traded from an area of strength to get more talent and Jefry has a very good arm, Johnson looks like a legit OF prospect and the last guy they got was playing well until he got hurt this season. So Gomes trade was a very good move at the end of the day, and we didn't lose much at all overall by trading Gomes!

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Well based on your bulletproof analysis of how a guy with a 2 WAR would have already won 4-5 more games by himself, I'll just go sit down.

Impossible to compete with that.

ajz20 said:

I don’t think you discredited anything I said lol. Yes trade all vets who won’t be on this roster in the next 3 to 4 years who can return future talent. Replenish your minor League system and come back strong as soon as you can, estimated 3 to 4 years but who knows maybe a year sooner depending on prospects and trades. You won’t play in a World Series this year or next baring a historic unreal run. Time to deal with reality coach. 2016 is gone, that window is over.

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I didn't discredit anything you said, outside of the fact you said we cannot win next season, when we honestly will be a better team next season, and we are at least a wild card team this season. I personally feel we will be a way better team overall next season with all the young talent we have in the upper minors that will come through this season/beginning of next season. You can disagree all you want, but I project a way better roster in 2020 for this Indians roster hence why I don't want to move players like you do just yet.

AZ_ said:

Well based on your bulletproof analysis of how a guy with a 2 WAR would have already won 4-5 more games by himself, I'll just go sit down.

Impossible to compete with that.

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We lost how many games so far because we didn't get a timely hit/one-two runs? He would be leading the roster with HRs, RBIs etc and would have taken pressure off of Ramirez to produce this season. Everything is theoretical, but he may have a WAR of 2, but with a team who needed some hits, some of those 10, 2 runs or less losses, would have become wins, and then that puts us 3-4 games above .500 and if Brantley had the influence via just his everyday attitude, could have gotten even more wins because Ramirez I feel would have gotten some more hits and wouldn't have pressed as much and wasn't playing his game. That could have net us one more win, so those 10 close games, could easily have gone towards the Indians with a bat like Brantley in the lineup. This is what I believe and no one will know because either of our cases are theoretical in nature.

sportscoach said:

We lost how many games so far because we didn't get a timely hit/one-two runs? He would be leading the roster with HRs, RBIs etc and would have taken pressure off of Ramirez to produce this season. Everything is theoretical, but he may have a WAR of 2, but with a team who needed some hits, some of those 10, 2 runs or less losses, would have become wins, and then that puts us 3-4 games above .500 and if Brantley had the influence via just his everyday attitude, could have gotten even more wins because Ramirez I feel would have gotten some more hits and wouldn't have pressed as much and wasn't playing his game. That could have net us one more win, so those 10 close games, could easily have gone towards the Indians with a bat like Brantley in the lineup. This is what I believe and no one will know because either of our cases are theoretical in nature.

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You're welcome to pull more nonsense out of your ass and state it matter of factly, I'm just not going to join you in entertaining it as a serious discussion.

sportscoach said:

I didn't discredit anything you said, outside of the fact you said we cannot win next season, when we honestly will be a better team next season, and we are at least a wild card team this season. I personally feel we will be a way better team overall next season with all the young talent we have in the upper minors that will come through this season/beginning of next season. You can disagree all you want, but I project a way better roster in 2020 for this Indians roster hence why I don't want to move players like you do just yet.

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The chances of winning a World Series are very slim in the next two years. Anything is possible but I would say very very low. Once they trade lindor, which they should in the next 12 to 14 months to maximize return the chances go down even more. This could very well be a third place team this year and again in 2020. Look it was a good three year run, now it is time to regroup and come back in a few years. It is how this franchise will have to operate until MLB changes the way it operates. Don’t be expecting and post season games any time soon.