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The Windhorst Tracker - (Shaq for Ben and Sasha?)

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castor777 said:
Think the point he's making is did you know Brad Miller was going to get traded yesterday? From what I gathered from W&G's previous posts, that was what messed up Ferry's moves of getting Camby and Salmons here.

I don't think every GM called up Ferry and asked for his approval before they made trades to better their teams. The Bulls got the trade in for Miller/Salmons before anyone else did and didn't wait for the deadline to do it. Lucky them I guess, but I agree again you can't blame Ferry for that.
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You really just proved my point if what you are saying is true?

IF Ferry really could have had Salmons AND Camby, then why in the world did he wait to the last second hoping for a blockbuster steal?

He should have took Salmons and Camby and been happy with it.
 
Gimme Some Mo said:
You really just proved my point if what you are saying is true?

IF Ferry really could have had Salmons AND Camby, then why in the world did he wait to the last second hoping for a blockbuster steal?

He should have took Salmons and Camby and been happy with it.
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Ask W&G, he covered it in a previous post, saying he was trying to get another team involved and then the Bulls trade fell through. Since Camby didn't get traded, I'm guessing he was still attempting to put the offer together before the Bulls got Miller/Salmons.

I'm not going to pretend I'm W&G though, I'm sure he can clear up what actually happened.
 
Taki said:
You guys who are talking about Delonte not being able to guard Kobe, what about Sasha? Sasha has held to Kobe to shooting in the 30s in terms of percent.
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Also, why not bring back a little thing that happened a couple years ago when Kobe was on his scoring rampage....

A sweltering Kobe Bryant, entrenched in one of the NBA’s greatest scoring streaks ever (53.6 ppg in the previous five games), he probably had no idea the once silent Gamecock was about to end it. On this night Kobe would only shoot 7-for-26 on his way to 23 points with Kinsey pressuring him into countless ugly shots. Kinsey, however, dropped a career high 24 points on Bryant, hitting 10-of-18 shots from the field. Not only did he outscore Bryant, he out rebounded him seven to five while helping undermanned Memphis top the Lakers 88-86.

"It felt great, undrafted and getting playing time now, coming to L.A. and playing against Kobe (Bryant) on their court and helping the team get a victory, that's a great feeling," Kinsey said.
 
Some posters are really showing their true stupid face. C'mon, this expiring contract wasn't wasn't money that you can spend on anything you want, you can only buy what's in store but you have to pay full price.
 
Gimme Some Mo said:
You really just proved my point if what you are saying is true?

IF Ferry really could have had Salmons AND Camby, then why in the world did he wait to the last second hoping for a blockbuster steal?

He should have took Salmons and Camby and been happy with it.
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it's not that Ferry could have had a deal, it's that for us to get Camby, we needed pieces from our roster and Sacs to do it, and we needed the Clips to budge.

the Clips didn't budge and the Kings got nervous and made a different deal.


it's getting old that people see names and immediately think they're readily available. the Clips were holding their ground but if the offer is still on the table, there's still more time for minds to change. Kings didn't want to wait and made another deal
 
Wine and Gold said:
Actually people who can't understand the process isn't perfect, and nobody bats 1000 are the idiots.
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With all due respect W&G, nobody said the process was perfect but what seems painfully obvious from your post is that Danny Ferry thought it was. Apparently he waited until the last minute to make a trade and then got left out in the cold because he thought he could get a deal. He gambled and lost, with a $13.5M expiring contract for an NBA team with championship aspirations, now it's time people man up and admit it. These attempts to save face are silly. And I don't know if this was directed at me or not, and if not then whatever but, to call a fan an idiot because he's pissed that a trade wasn't made is totally uncalled for. That's Danny Ferry's job, and as a fan I expect him to perform in that job exceptionally; especially if we're supposed to be a championship caliber team.

I mean honestly, do you think it was wise to pass on Miller/Salmons? You also said you were disappointed that we didn't make a trade... How can you be simultaneously disappointed decisions were made to stand pat and that's then say that's right decision? That seems extremely contradictory to me. I mean, if you were responsible for the Cleveland Cavaliers, would you gamble on making a trade at the last minute or making a smart move initially without being -for lack of a better word- greedy?

Furthermore, I just can't stand how one minute everyone agrees we need to make changes, and now it's Ferry knows what's best. I might not be the GM of the Cavaliers or some insider with secret knowledge, but that doesn't mean I can't be one pissed off fan. As far as I can tell, and without further hard evidence, the Cavaliers front-office blew it. And I'm not the only one that believes that. Until someone can tell me different, with more than just "I know and you don't," then my opinion stands.
 
i still beleive that the cavs can still win the NBA title with this roster. if we get joe smith or mikki more as a FA pick up than that will increase our chances. Maybe a very solid big man other than joe smith gets a buy out and we can pick him up.
 
I understand we are 41-11,which is outstanding,but I really am having a difficult time understanding how some people actually think not getting a deal does not pose a problem in the long run.We all saw how we were exposed against the Lakers,who remember were out Bynum themselves.You are fooling yourself if you think this team 100% healthy is good enough to beat a healthy Lakers team in a Finals matchup,if we even get that far.I believe in this team,but I'm also being realistic and I can't understand how some of you actually think standing pat was the best thing we could have done.Like I saw someone post earlier,why just be happy with a great regular season if you don't win when it matters most?
 
This deal is:
Side_Casket_angle.jpg
 
I want Joe. His all-around game off the bench is important, his knowledge and size is valuable, and the fact that he's back here would piss off Celtics fans.

Joe is the depth we need. Plus, that'd mean we traded Damon Jones for Mo Williams straight up, what a damn steal.
 
gourimoko said:
With all due respect W&G, nobody said the process was perfect but what seems painfully obvious from your post is that Danny Ferry thought it was. Apparently he waited until the last minute to make a trade and then got left out in the cold because he thought he could get a deal. He gambled and lost, with a $13.5M expiring contract for an NBA team with championship aspirations, now it's time people man up and admit it. These attempts to save face are silly. And I don't know if this was directed at me or not, and if not then whatever but, to call a fan an idiot because he's pissed that a trade wasn't made is totally uncalled for. That's Danny Ferry's job, and as a fan I expect him to perform in that job exceptionally; especially if we're supposed to be a championship caliber team.

I mean honestly, do you think it was wise to pass on Miller/Salmons? You also said you were disappointed that we didn't make a trade... How can you be simultaneously disappointed decisions were made to stand pat and that's then say that's right decision? That seems extremely contradictory to me. I mean, if you were responsible for the Cleveland Cavaliers, would you gamble on making a trade at the last minute or making a smart move initially without being -for lack of a better word- greedy?

Furthermore, I just can't stand how one minute everyone agrees we need to make changes, and now it's Ferry knows what's best. I might not be the GM of the Cavaliers or some insider with secret knowledge, but that doesn't mean I can't be one pissed off fan. As far as I can tell, and without further hard evidence, the Cavaliers front-office blew it. And I'm not the only one that believes that. Until someone can tell me different, with more than just "I know and you don't," then my opinion stands.
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It's called dealing from a position of great leverage and great strength.

Ferry held all the cards in his negotiations. He didn't HAVE to make a move. Because of that fact, he didn't have to bend in his offers whatsoever. If he didn't want to give up Hickson or a 1st round pick, he certainly didn't have to. His team is 44-11 and by all accounts is not bleeding money. Ferry knows that his team was 24-4 when fully healthy and a still respectable 17-7 after major injuries to starters.

If Ferry was going to make a move, it was going to be on his terms and in his favor. If no one wanted to play ball, well he clearly was more then comfortable riding with his 30 games over .500 basketball team.

With the Cavaliers record as good as it is factoring in injuries, there was no desperate need to make a trade. A trade would have been a luxury, not a necessity.
 
last year we took Boston 7 games and they had homecourt advantage. We also did not have Boobie those last 2 games of the semi finals. WE were O SO Close to making it to the East Finals for the second consecutive year. This year our team chemistry is amazing and couldnt be better. We added in my opinion the one of the best overall shooters in the NBA (Mo Williams) . Our offense and defense are Light years better than it waws last year. We all know that the Cavaliers are a wayy better team in the playoffs than in the regular season as we have shown in the Lebron James era.. So stop panicking people...JEEEZ
 
The only thing I don't understand is what players were actually traded that made everyone so mad that we didn't get in on it.

I get the Miller/Salmons trade, even though I didn't want Miller at all.

It sucks to see Alston in Orlando - but we weren't looking for a PG so it's not like we were in the mix to get him in the first place.

But seriously, all the names that were mentioned - Amare, Shaq, Vince, Butler, Jamison, Camby, Jefferson, Boozer - all those players DID NOT GET TRADED.

If they didn't end up in another teams hands, I honestly think they were pulled off the market and were made unavailable. So why would you blame Ferry for not getting any of those players?

If you can name a handful of players that you were really high on that went to other teams, I could certainly understand it better. But when I'm only hearing Brad Miller as the only name on our list that we didn't get - I refuse to be upset about it.
 
CBBI said:
It's called dealing from a position of great leverage and great strength.

Ferry held all the cards in his negotiations. He didn't HAVE to make a move. Because of that fact, he didn't have to bend in his offers whatsoever. If he didn't want to give up Hickson or a 1st round pick, he certainly didn't have to. His team is 44-11 and by all accounts is not bleeding money. Ferry knows that his team was 24-4 when fully healthy and a still respectable 17-7 after major injuries to starters.

If Ferry was going to make a move, it was going to be on his terms and in his favor. If no one wanted to play ball, well he clearly was more then comfortable riding with his 30 games over .500 basketball team.

With the Cavaliers record as good as it is factoring in injuries, there was no desperate need to make a trade. A trade would have been a luxury, not a necessity.
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These are great points, but the problem with your analysis is that you're assuming that other GM's will accept Ferry's position as having any leverage whatsoever. If I were a GM of an opposing team, I would realize that Ferry needed to make a trade just as desperately as I did. I'm paying attention to the games just as much as anyone else - and I have a staff to help me build trades. If Ferry looked down his nose at opposing GMs and balked at trades that would have made us significantly better simply to hold a superior position - then I would think it's obvious that he failed at actually completing a trade. That's kind of the entire reason to hold a superior negotiating position isn't it? To get a trade done?

I mean, if we believe the reports that stated that the Cavaliers were in full scramble mode during the last 24 hours then Ferry apparently realized he blew it and was desperate to make a trade. It would have been the more prudent choice to make a pickup earlier in the season and not hope to find a bargain towards the deadline. If RJ was a good fit, and could have been had earlier in the season, and Ferry waited (for what?!?) then he blew it. Same goes for Carter/Miller+Salmons/J-Rich etc etc...
 
gourimoko said:
That's kind of the entire reason to hold a superior negotiating position isn't it? To get a trade done?
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Absolutely NOT. The entire reason its good to have the negotiating upper hand is to put the best team possible on the floor. Change for changes sake, just because Wally's contract wasn't traded, was never the goal nor should have been.

Many fans, not just gourimoko, get very caught up in trade deadlines. Fine, but remember Godfather II - sometimes the dea you walk away from is the best deal you can make. Wine and Gold was very clear that up until today the first round pick was in play, but JJ was not. Nobody on this forum knows exactly what was offered, exactly what was rejected, and exactly what the other team demanded. All anyone knows is that the Cavs - who looked unbeatable when fully healthy -will not be making a trade.

Our record hasn't changed since we beat Toronto, fellas.
 
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