The Windhorst Tracker - (Shaq for Ben and Sasha?)

OK I think some people are getting stressed for no reason. We shouldn't make trades just to make them and I am not convinced that the right players were available.

John Salmons- Having a great year, but its only one year of other mediocre seasons. As someone said on here (I forgot who) I could see him as being another Larry Hughes.

Marcus Camby- The only guy that I really wanted on the team because he fits in really well. But was he ever really available? and at what cost?

Amar'e- We made the best offer we could, and the Suns decided to keep him, not Ferry's fault.

Shaq- Kind of torn on him, if he could come very cheap then I say go for him.

Mike Miller- More people wanted him than there were rumors about him, but seriously? I rather stick with wally than give up anyone.

These are some of the people we were interested in and I do not see anyone worth breaking the bank for and no one worth getting pissed at Ferry for not getting.

Most of the theory behind your emotions I'm in full agreement on, gourimoko, until you begin projecting what Ferry was offered and assuming what Ferry had to part with would be cancelled out by the positives coming in. Again, you don't know yet.

Absolutely. But if we look at our losses, all but 1 is on the road and we lost twice versus the Lakers. I'm not one to say the regular season means much of anything in the playoffs outside of seeding, or we wouldn't have been swept in the Finals against the Spurs (whom we bested in the reg. season IIRC); however, I do think that we learned that the Cavaliers need an answer for the Lakers front-court. Our best opportunity to remedy that problem came and went today, and personally I feel as though that was a huge mistake on Ferry's part. Lastly, if we don't win the Finals this season, how does this play out with our chances of holding on to LeBron in 2010? That must be priority #1, I would imagine. And those hopes could not have been improved today, whatsoever.

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If deals (again, we have no detail to go off of) were passed up because everyone wanted Hickson and a few first round picks, I'd say we have a top-three basketball team for the 2009 season, and a likely starting power forward for 2010. I would have been very concerned if in 2010 the only starting big man under the age of 35 was Darnell Jackson, and we had no picks for the next few years. But, again, that is just conjecture. I'm waiting for some details to be released.

**And to be honest, there are other ways to vent anger than confronting our best source for inside information. Try taking a long walk, get your emotions in check, and perhaps ask nicely for more details at another time, yes?

Hello once again guys,

I have been reading this site for a long time, well before I registered in Dec. 2007, this is my 2nd post. I feel like if I don't have anything productive to say then why share it?

That said, I cannot believe the crap I am seeing today and most of this week out of some people on this website, one day Ferry is a God/Genius and 24 hrs later he is an incompetent hack? Are you serious?

Does anyone who knows a lick about basketball actually think this trade deadline changes anything with this organization? We are supposed to just mortgage the future for any old player we can get? You have to remember if we use are flexible assets now i.e. draft picks, expirings, etc... for second class hacks like RJeff, Vince Carter, B. Miller, J. Salmons, J. Richardson, not only would we have we locked ourselves into their salaries for a long time, but if it does not work we have no ace in the hole when it comes down to giving Lebron reasons to stay. Outside of C. Butler, Stoudamire, Camby, and maybe Shaq, NO one that I am aware of would have definatley put us over the hump. You remember Larry Hughes? Scorers need touches to be happy, so we want to add a possible malcontent just because we can?

I would seem to think patience would be a virtue when making decisions that may lock up our future? We chose poorly and Lebron may walk.

Anyone remember Mike Bibby, great player, but who would you rather have, him or Mo Williams at age 25 ? I saw many here calling for Ferry's head last year because he did not pull the trigger and overpay for Bibby, probably the same fools that show up on this site for action between Jan 15 - Feb 15.

How did this work out for the Cavs? That's right we stole Mo Williams. SOOOOO....Why or why the hell would we knowingly forfeit future assets for a guy that won't definatley put us over the championship hump. I think it is pretty clear that nothing came to fruitation that would fill our long term goals without morgaging the farm. So why hound Ferry? We have to be careful with the decisions we make over the next 18 months, and I for one am happy we stood pat if we could not get a piece that is in our permanent plans.

Thanks.

Randolphkeys said:

Most of the theory behind your emotions I'm in full agreement on, gourimoko, until you begin projecting what Ferry was offered and assuming what Ferry had to part with would be cancelled out by the positives coming in. Again, you don't know yet.

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Ferry should have had an offer for every player in the league that we could realistically get and would improve our team. That's his job.

There are at most 450 players in the league. 15 of them are on the Cavs. At least half of them do not help us at all. At least 50 of the ones left would be poor fits. At least 25 of them are untouchables, and there are quite a few that other teams wouldn't want to trade us (Boston, Orlando, Lakers, Spurs aren't going to make a trade that helps us) . You can pretty much eliminate all but 100 or so players as being available, able to help our team win, and fitting in our system. In the past 4 days, there's no reason Ferry can't call every single GM in the league and ask about the 4-5 guys on their team that we might have interest in... "ok, I have a couple questions.. what does it take to get any one of these players? (names players). ok, thank you." End of phone call. Ferry should have known that Snow + DJack would have been enough to land Wilcox. He should have known that something along the lines of Snow + DJack + Wright would be close to enough to land Chandler.

That is what I'm upset about... it just seems it would be rather simple to have gotten Wilcox and probably many other players of his caliber for something cheap like Snow + DJack, but we didn't even make a move that slightly improves our chances.

excellent point here jones except i disagree on one thing....I dont think we "stood pat" I think Ferry was out there trying his ass off to make a deal and other GMs were trying to rip us off and or they didn't want to make a move

either way Ferry is ok in my book

and bank on us collecting Bosh before the deadline next year HAHHAHA....its a pattern

Randolphkeys said:

Most of the theory behind your emotions I'm in full agreement on, gourimoko, until you begin projecting what Ferry was offered and assuming what Ferry had to part with would be cancelled out by the positives coming in. Again, you don't know yet.

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And on that point you're absolutely right.. We need more information. I just anticipate that when that information will be released, it will correlate with my suspicion that Ferry was caught flat footed and desperate to make a trade at the last minute. Just like ESPN reported. (And I hate ESPN just as much as anyone, but again - the writing is on the wall... ahem, shaq??)

Randolphkeys said:

If deals (again, we have no detail to go off of) were passed up because everyone wanted Hickson and a few first round picks, I'd say we have a top-three basketball team for the 2009 season, and a likely starting power forward for 2010. I would have been very concerned if in 2010 the only starting big man under the age of 35 was Darnell Jackson, and we had no picks for the next few years. But, again, that is just conjecture. I'm waiting for some details to be released.

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Agreed, we're both just setting up scenarios to fit our arguments. I would only argue that Ferry had a keen opportunity to acquire Jefferson after Bogut was injured only weeks after Redd tore his ACL and was declared out for the season.

Randolphkeys said:

**And to be honest, there are other ways to vent anger than confronting our best source for inside information. Try taking a long walk, get your emotions in check, and perhaps ask nicely for more details at another time, yes?

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You're right.... I know how to take one for the team.. I'm outta here. Need to take a break.

Go Cavs!

What are the odds the Cavs try and make a trade for Shaq in the offseason? Just wondering

Im just sad we were turned down on amare,shaq,camby and jamison

To be honest imo the Cavs never really expected to make a trade. We had SAS on espn saying gms around the league were telling him the cavs sounded very desperate to make a trade. I dont believe any of that crap. Ferry had an interview with Reghi and he said most of the deals you heard about was just conversation and that were never really close to making a deal. Take it for what its worth but i believe him.

Northstar said:

Ferry should have had an offer for every player in the league that we could realistically get and would improve our team. That's his job.

There are at most 450 players in the league. 15 of them are on the Cavs. At least half of them do not help us at all. At least 50 of the ones left would be poor fits. At least 25 of them are untouchables, and there are quite a few that other teams wouldn't want to trade us (Boston, Orlando, Lakers, Spurs aren't going to make a trade that helps us) . You can pretty much eliminate all but 100 or so players as being available, able to help our team win, and fitting in our system. In the past 4 days, there's no reason Ferry can't call every single GM in the league and ask about the 4-5 guys on their team that we might have interest in... "ok, I have a couple questions.. what does it take to get any one of these players? (names players). ok, thank you." End of phone call. Ferry should have known that Snow + DJack would have been enough to land Wilcox. He should have known that something along the lines of Snow + DJack + Wright would be close to enough to land Chandler.

That is what I'm upset about... it just seems it would be rather simple to have gotten Wilcox and probably many other players of his caliber for something cheap like Snow + DJack, but we didn't even make a move that slightly improves our chances.

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How do you know Ferry didn't call New Orleans and OKC after that trade fell apart? I know for a fact we acquired Flip Murray a few trade deadlines ago because another deal fell through for the Sonics, hence we nabbed a starting guard for our playoff run for pennies on the dollar. Ferry made the call that time, and there is no proof he didn't at least try to do the same this time.

All the posters who lived on RCF for the past 12 hours straight must feel tremendous dissapointment right now, mostly because you spent the whole day waiting for the big payoff. I pretty much missed the emotional rollercoaster because of work, so I can have a clear head about being patient for the details. Go ahead and be angry, but let's not make any assumptions about who Ferry didn't call until we get proof.

The deals with Sac and LAC would have left us weak amongst our bigs. Weaker than we are now. We couldn't give them what they needed to make the deal and been a stronger team. They needed to met our demands and they couldn't ...it obviosuly wasn't in the cards.

So, what other trades do you think he blew ? I'll try and enlighten you.

Wine and Gold said:

The deals with Sac and LAC would have left us weak amongst our bigs. Weaker than we are now. We couldn't give them what they needed to make the deal and been a stronger team. They needed to met our demands and they couldn't ...it obviosuly wasn't in the cards.

So, what other trades do you think he blew ? I'll try and enlighten you.

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And Sac felt they got a good deal from Chicago. And the Clippers did nothing and are basically going to find themselves in the Lottery for what....the 6th straight year.

Wine and Gold said:

So, what other trades do you think he blew ? I'll try and enlighten you.

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Of course, without knowing what deals were available, we can't say what he did or didn't blew.

But you can't really convince me that the team is better off now, than it was 48 hours ago.... i.e that we are better with Wally Szczerbiak (who expires and leaves at the end of the year), than we would be with some of the long term pieces who had been mentioned over the past few months (whether it was Amare, RJ, VC, Gforce, Camby, Salmons, Shaq, etc.) I would have even thought that taking a bad contract and a high draft pick or developing prospect, would have put us in a much better position to pick up a Bosh/Amare type in a trade next year.

Maybe none of these deals ever materialized, and maybe Ferry never had a choice....but that doesn't change the fact that from a fans perspective it's damn disappointing. Without knowing what deals were available, it looks like we've missed an opportunity.

~Lyuokdea

Randolphkeys said:

How do you know Ferry didn't call New Orleans and OKC after that trade fell apart? I know for a fact we acquired Flip Murray a few trade deadlines ago because another deal fell through for the Sonics, hence we nabbed a starting guard for our playoff run for pennies on the dollar. Ferry made the call that time, and there is no proof he didn't at least try to do the same this time.

All the posters who lived on RCF for the past 12 hours straight must feel tremendous dissapointment right now, mostly because you spent the whole day waiting for the big payoff. I pretty much missed the emotional rollercoaster because of work, so I can have a clear head about being patient for the details. Go ahead and be angry, but let's not make any assumptions about who Ferry didn't call until we get proof.

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He may have called them, but what could he have possibly not liked about trading Snow + DJack for Wilcox. I am not going to believe that OKC liked a straight expiring contract in Malik Rose more than they would have liked Snow (same size expiring) + DJack (decent looking young big).

Wine and Gold said:

The deals with Sac and LAC would have left us weak amongst our bigs. Weaker than we are now. We couldn't give them what they needed to make the deal and been a stronger team. They needed to met our demands and they couldn't ...it obviosuly wasn't in the cards.

So, what other trades do you think he blew ? I'll try and enlighten you.

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Not a blockbuster, but could you fill us in on whether we were at all interested in Chris Wilcox? I feel he would have been a decent upgrade to our front line.

Wine and Gold said:

So, what other trades do you think he blew ? I'll try and enlighten you.

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I'm having a very tough time getting over the fact that the Cavs had probably the biggest tradeable asset in the NBA and did jack squat with him. I mean, one of the key sticking points from last year's big trade was Wally's contract.

The impression I've picked up is that Ferry and Co. counted their chickens a little too early and perhaps were banking on backup deals that never came to fruition. When it was clear their big targets (ie, Amare, Camby, etc) weren't attainable, the backup plans (ie, Jefferson, Miller, etc) followed suit for one reason or another. They gambled by holding out, and lost. Not stating any of this as fact, just the impression I've gotten.

But the bottom line is that the Cavs had a golden opportunity to improve the quality of their roster today and failed to do so. Ferry is being paid a lot of money to put forth a championship calibur team and is expected to do so. Now maybe this current roster is good enough to win a ring, personally I see no way for them to get by LA. But if its clear in the playoffs that this team was still that 'one player away', then yes Ferry did blow it.

Time will tell.