2012 Finals !!

[CavsFaninNJ]

Its silly to think 23 year old kevin durant cannot improve his game. To think we are even comparing 23 year old durant to the current version of lebron speaks volumes about durant. He's getting better too, especially on the defensive end. He has the potential to be better than lebron.

By a fairly large margin? That's extreme, IMO.

To play your side and agree, though, compare lebron at 23 to durant at 23 and the gap isnt as large...

It's hard to imagine anyone being better than Lebron by a large margin... Thats extremely rare. If 23 or 24 year old lebron had westbrook, ibaka, and harden he might have a ring

 

[Mdog1]

Its silly to think 23 year old kevin durant cannot improve his game. To think we are even comparing 23 year old durant to the current version of lebron speaks volumes about durant. He's getting better too, especially on the defensive end. He has the potential to be better than lebron, by a fairly large margin.

Not really. The only thing Durant is better than LeBron at is 3 point shooting and FT shooting. As Durant ages scoring will be harder for him, but LeBron can drop to the 4 and playin in the post and be fine. Durant can play the wings, LeBron can play 1-5 at an all star level. I'm not saying Durant can't improve, and he will be better than LeBron one day as LeBron gets older, and Durant hits his prime, but LeBron's got at least 3 more years at this level, and it is a level that Durant simply doesn't have the potential to reach.

 

[gourimoko]

Just like he dominated Shawn Marion and the Mavs last year? Oh yeah.

...concisely, do you think Durant is better than LeBron?

 

[gourimoko]

Its silly to think 23 year old kevin durant cannot improve his game. To think we are even comparing 23 year old durant to the current version of lebron speaks volumes about durant. He's getting better too, especially on the defensive end. He has the potential to be better than lebron.

So does anybody... But LeBron is better at present.

 

[FiveThous]

Durant is a much more efficient scorer than LBJ has even been, thats what I was eluding to in the OP

 

[Mdog1]

Durant is a much more efficient scorer than LBJ has even been, thats what I was eluding to in the OP

.531>.496

In the playoffs .508>.505

Where is Durant more efficient again? The FT line and the 3pt line...

Edit: And not only is LeBron more efficient from the feild in the playoffs, he is scoring 3 more ppg, you know the thing Durant is "better" at.

 

[gourimoko]

We'll see. Durant just helped his thunder beat the defending champs, the champs before them, and the champs before the champs before them. Durant lit it up on the offensive end, rebounded the ball well, and shut down kobe during some key stretches. You are severely underestimating durant. You are severely overestimating finals lebron.

I'm comparing two basketball players, not two anecdotes. LeBron lit it up on the offensive end, and he also rebounded the ball well. LeBron can also guard every position, play every position, distribute the ball as well as some of the best PGs in the league, and he can almost effortlessly penetrate defenses to score seemingly at will. He also has a 2nd option in Wade, that, when they play a two man game, it's exceedingly difficult to stop.

OKCs only chance, in my mind, to beat the Heat, is to either stop (hope) Wade and Bosh from scoring (not happening), or outscore them which is entirely possible considering they're a much more robust team than the Heat.

 

[gourimoko]

Durant is a much more efficient scorer than LBJ has even been, thats what I was eluding to in the OP

This isn't even remotely true.

 

[metalman213]

Not really. The only thing Durant is better than LeBron at is 3 point shooting and FT shooting. As Durant ages scoring will be harder for him, but LeBron can drop to the 4 and playin in the post and be fine. Durant can play the wings, LeBron can play 1-5 at an all star level. I'm not saying Durant can't improve, and he will be better than LeBron one day as LeBron gets older, and Durant hits his prime, but LeBron's got at least 3 more years at this level, and it is a level that Durant simply doesn't have the potential to reach.

Durant is 23. He is not in his prime. As he ages, scoring will not get harder for him, i would argue it would get easier. As he gets bigger / stronger eventually, he will be even more of a matchup nightmare as he will go to his post game more. Durant does 3 point shooting and FT shooting better than lebron. What does lebron do better than durant? defense. and thats where durant will become even more of a game changer. with his length, athletic ability, etc, he has so much more potential on the defensive end than he has right now. We have seen shades of it when he shut down kobe. I bet when lebron is 29 and durant is 25, durant will be seen as the better player. By that point he will have a couple rings (hopefully) + finals mvps + regular season mvps.

I would take durant over lebron on offense. The defensive end is where lebron has durant beat. And durant is getting there, and has a lot of room to improve.

 

[gourimoko]

Durant is 23. He is not in his prime. As he ages, scoring will not get harder for him, i would argue it would get easier. As he gets bigger / stronger eventually, he will be even more of a matchup nightmare as he will go to his post game more.

This is all speculative, I won't engage in that..

Durant does 3 point shooting and FT shooting better than lebron. What does lebron do better than durant? defense.

And the several other aspects that have been previously mentioned including ball handling and distribution, court vision, ability to play every position (at a high-level), ability to defend every position (at a high-level), etc etc... Not just "defense."

and thats where durant will become even more of a game changer. with his length, athletic ability, etc, he has so much more potential on the defensive end than he has right now.

Speculative... I doubt Durant shuts down LeBron.. I have seen no evidence that would lead me to such a conclusion.

We have seen shades of it when he shut down kobe. I bet when lebron is 29 and durant is 25, durant will be seen as the better player. By that point he will have a couple rings (hopefully) + finals mvps + regular season mvps.

I hope that is the case too.

I would take durant over lebron on offense all day long. The defensive end is where lebron has durant beat. And durant is getting there, and has a lot of room to improve.

Bullshit. No GM in the league would take Durant over LeBron. Not one.

 

[gourimoko]

I'm done defending LeBron. Think what you want. I feel dirty now.. gonna go take a shower.

 

[Mdog1]

Durant is 23. He is not in his prime. As he ages, scoring will not get harder for him, i would argue it would get easier. As he gets bigger / stronger eventually, he will be even more of a matchup nightmare as he will go to his post game more. Durant does 3 point shooting and FT shooting better than lebron. What does lebron do better than durant? defense. and thats where durant will become even more of a game changer. with his length, athletic ability, etc, he has so much more potential on the defensive end than he has right now. We have seen shades of it when he shut down kobe. I bet when lebron is 29 and durant is 25, durant will be seen as the better player. By that point he will have a couple rings (hopefully) + finals mvps + regular season mvps.

I would take durant over lebron on offense. The defensive end is where lebron has durant beat. And durant is getting there, and has a lot of room to improve.

I hate when people make me defend LeBron.

LeBron is a better offensive player than Durant too. LeBron in his first two NBA seasons had 1042 assists, and Durant in his career has 1073 (5 years) a difference of 41. Two seasons in LeBron had 41 less assists than Durant has now.

People seem to think offense is only scoring. Offense also includes passing, which Durant will never approach LeBron in. For example this year LeBron scored one less point, but assisted 2.7 more times per game. which accounts for at least 5 more ppg making LeBron's offensive total 4 points higher than Durants.

On defense it's not close as you said. LeBron is a DPOY candidate, and Durant isn't even a 1st teamer.

 

[Steve_424]

We watched him play for 7 years. He's by far the better player. He can play every position on the floor, is an exceptional ball handler and passer, he can rebound with the best of them, he is hyper-athletic, strong, and tall enough to shoot over most defenders. He's among the fastest players and has one of the highest basketball I.Q.s of any top-level player. To compare him to anybody playing today is absurd...

He could have been the GOAT.

I hate the guy more than probably anybody here, but I've never said he isn't the best - and comparing him to Durant, again, is silly.

There's a difference between the most talented player and the best player. LeBron has more natural talent than anyone in the NBA...I agree with you there. What I think is debatable is if he is the best player in the league. We did watch him play for the last 9 years. I've seen him do so incredible, incredible things on a basketball court. When he wants to take over a game, he can and does.

That's the thing - he doesn't always do that. He's the most talented player in the league, but he's also one of (if not the most) mentally fragile players at the same time. Sometimes he plays masterfully (2007 against Detroit, Game 6 against Boston). Other times he disappears (every 4th quarter in last year's Finals). And we all remember the time he flat out quit (Game 4/5 vs Boston in 2010).

You never know what you're going to get with LeBron James - pure greatness or head-shaking mystery.

As you said, he could have been GOAT. Right now he's nowhere near that, and it's 100% because of his mental weakness. He's more naturally talented than Kobe Bryant, Kevin Durant, Chris Paul, etc. But the best player? That's completely debatable.

Question: Game 7 of the NBA Finals - who would you rather have, Kobe Bryant or LeBron James? It shouldn't be a question, but it is, all because of LeBron's mental fragility. I take Kobe, because history tells me I can't trust LeBron James in that situation.

Will he start to change that perception over the next two weeks? Maybe so. Until he does, questions will continue to surround LeBron James. They will grow even more if Kevin Durant - a younger superstar making his first Finals appearance - has a ring in two weeks.

 

[metalman213]

And the several other aspects that have been previously mentioned including ball handling and distribution, court vision, ability to play every position (at a high-level), ability to defend every position (at a high-level), etc etc... Not just "defense."

Durant can play PF better than lebron (size), i would say shooting guard better than lebron (because of his range), and neither can play center very well. Lebron is better at point, and overall at the moment. Lebron has the better point skills, yes, but durant is a lot better isolation scorer, spot up shooter, and overall offensive player imo. remember, lebron is often the primary ball handler so he gets more opportunities. durant is fed the ball by westbrook, who does a pretty bad job at distributing the ball.

Speculative... I doubt Durant shuts down LeBron.. I have seen no evidence that would lead me to such a conclusion.

Yeah because thats clearly what i said

I hope that is the case too.Bullshit. No GM in the league would take Durant over LeBron. Not one.

Disregard that I said on offense / scoring. Disregard that i think lebron is better than durant right now.

 

[MDLT]

Durant-James head-to-head stats.

Kevin Durant vs. LeBron James | Basketball-Reference.com