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2017-2018 Boston Celtics: No Irving! No Hayward! No Brooklyn Pick!

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Regrade the finalized trade

  • A+

    Votes: 20 8.0%

  • A

    Votes: 70 27.9%

  • B

    Votes: 74 29.5%

  • C

    Votes: 39 15.5%

  • D

    Votes: 18 7.2%

  • F

    Votes: 30 12.0%
  • Total voters
    251
RedBlackAttack said:
Yeah, that particular no-call was atrocious and it came a couple possessions after Marco Belinelli got a favorable call working the post with very little contact.

To drive the point home, Belinelli shot 5 free throws tonight. Kyrie? 2.

It could have easily been 10-12. He was also fouled on that leaner that he hit late in the third and it was obvious.

I mean, I try to watch the games and evaluate the officials as fairly as I can with my personal biases in mind, but there is no one that can deny how little respect he gets in comparison to ... everyone.
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Don't you believe part of it is intrinsic? Kyrie has learned to maneuver the ball and his arms and his spin off the backboard such that he can throw it in from places where the opponent simply can't get their hand on the ball. He's literally the opposite of Harden who's arm movements are meant to encourage you to hack him, while he has the strength to finish through it. I don't necessarily doubt that Irving has the strength to finish through contact, but think it's an entirely different skill, by and large, so barking at the refs, even in a perfect world (where refs made calls on real contact and not the perception of) would only change a portion of this, and imo not even a large portion. Ky will never be a Harden or a Westbrook with 8-10 FTA/gm. But note that Wall has been shooting around where Kyrie does (4.5-4.8 gm) the last three years and jumped up to 6.8 this year, so a smaller jump is certainly possible.
 
Chris Parker said:
Don't you believe part of it is intrinsic? Kyrie has learned to maneuver the ball and his arms and his spin off the backboard such that he can throw it in from places where the opponent simply can't get their hand on the ball. He's literally the opposite of Harden who's arm movements are meant to encourage you to hack him, while he has the strength to finish through it. I don't necessarily doubt that Irving has the strength to finish through contact, but think it's an entirely different skill, by and large, so barking at the refs, even in a perfect world (where refs made calls on real contact and not the perception of) would only change a portion of this, and imo not even a large portion. Ky will never be a Harden or a Westbrook with 8-10 FTA/gm. But note that Wall has been shooting around where Kyrie does (4.5-4.8 gm) the last three years and jumped up to 6.8 this year, so a smaller jump is certainly possible.
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Hell, Wall even had a game with 19 FTA. Kyrie would have to play like 5 games to get 19 FTA.
 
Chris Parker said:
Don't you believe part of it is intrinsic? Kyrie has learned to maneuver the ball and his arms and his spin off the backboard such that he can throw it in from places where the opponent simply can't get their hand on the ball. He's literally the opposite of Harden who's arm movements are meant to encourage you to hack him, while he has the strength to finish through it. I don't necessarily doubt that Irving has the strength to finish through contact, but think it's an entirely different skill, by and large, so barking at the refs, even in a perfect world (where refs made calls on real contact and not the perception of) would only change a portion of this, and imo not even a large portion. Ky will never be a Harden or a Westbrook with 8-10 FTA/gm. But note that Wall has been shooting around where Kyrie does (4.5-4.8 gm) the last three years and jumped up to 6.8 this year, so a smaller jump is certainly possible.
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Good post. I'd take 6.8 fta for Irving like a J Wall in a New York minute btw.
 
Sadly, Wall is a mismatch against Kyrie. Kyrie can't guard him or stop him from penetrating and then dishing out. When his shot isn't falling to counterbalance his defensive woes against him, things get even worse like today.
 
John Wall stole Kyries jumper tonight.

The lack of respect Kyrie continued to get is mindboggling. Multiple times we got within 4-5,Kyrie got hammered, missed the shot, and then the Wizards got a late phantom whistle after the ref saw their shot rim out.
 
He's shown in the playoffs he can actually play good defense. Why is he unable to recover on the pick and roll defense? And when he is beat, why does he force the other defender to switch on to Wall?

I'm not even sure this can be fixed in the playoffs. You still need a decent b-ball IQ if you don't want to be a negative plus-minus on the defensive end...

But there's no choice in the matter, is there? As long as LeBron doesn't bring in the same (positive) effort from game-to-game, the other players won't follow suit with it either...

When LeBron retires, it'll probably set a bad precedence when Irving becomes the de-facto leader. But I'll focus on this season first.

Good luck, Kyrie! Hope you don't get shredded against your peers come playoff time!
 
When Wall shoots like that, I don't think it matters who guards him. I think Wall might be the fastest in the league. You got to go under the screens, he's not Steph Curry shooting, but he is lightening fast.

Kyrie was right in going under, Wall just was hitting the shot.

Nothing you can do.
 
godfather said:
When Wall shoots like that, I don't think it matters who guards him. I think Wall might be the fastest in the league. You got to go under the screens, he's not Steph Curry shooting, but he is lightening fast.

Kyrie was right in going under, Wall just was hitting the shot.

Nothing you can do.
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Yeah. This times 1000.

Wall hit like 7 jumpers in a row to start the game. You have to go under the screen on him. If you play up on him, that's when he starts to the basket and starts getting everyone involved.

The one thing that will change in the playoffs is we will be able to get more physical with him without fouling out in the first half, which will be very important.

But Walls a top 10-15 player. He had a great night. At the end of the day, you live with him taking threes and long twos off the dribble. You will usually get better results.
 
I'd prefer to put JR and Shump on Wall and let Kyrie guard Beal.
 
Northstar said:
I'd prefer to put JR and Shump on Wall and let Kyrie guard Beal.
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JR is better at guarding guys like Beal, running around screens, etc.

Shumpert on Wall is definitely something I'm.for, because Shumpert at least isn't overwhelmed athletically by Wall.
 
InBoobieWeTrust said:
JR is better at guarding guys like Beal, running around screens, etc.

Shumpert on Wall is definitely something I'm.for, because Shumpert at least isn't overwhelmed athletically by Wall.
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I guess I just feel like Wall overpowers Kyrie at times, and also think JR could get through screens a little better.

I mean, no one was stopping Wall in that first quarter, he was just on fire. But I think someone with a little more size would stop him from getting into the lane as easily.
 
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