2018 NBA Draft - June 21

[DJTJ]

Court vision for post moves is nowhere near an even trade in today's NBA. You take court vision 8 days a week and don't think twice about it.

It doesn't mean that it makes them a worse player.

I struggle to believe that Bagley, who's a better scorer, more athletic, and a better rebounder can't be every bit of player Ben Simmons is.

 

[blommen]

It doesn't mean that it makes them a worse player.

I struggle to believe that Bagley, who's a better scorer, more athletic, and a better rebounder can't be every bit of player Ben Simmons is.

I urge you to go back and read through the different breakdowns of his game in this thread. I was skeptical at first too, but watching him play I do think there are very real questions about how his game will translate to NBA.

 

[Nathan S]

It doesn't mean that it makes them a worse player.

I struggle to believe that Bagley, who's a better scorer, more athletic, and a better rebounder can't be every bit of player Ben Simmons is.

Bagley is more athletic and a better rebounder than Ben Simmons? Really?

 

[Lee]

It doesn't mean that it makes them a worse player.

I struggle to believe that Bagley, who's a better scorer, more athletic, and a better rebounder can't be every bit of player Ben Simmons is.

I have not watched baggly play, but I have watched simmons who is arguably the best rookie since Lebron. I would say it is difficult for anyone in this draft to be as good as Simmons has been as a rookie and that is no insult, just playing the percentages. Simmons is looking like the next top 5 in the league tallent. That is fine, i am not expecting him, just a solid lottery pick that we dont miss on.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

That's the one thing I've been able to parse from watching his highlights, he is unbelievably polished for his age. It made me question how more "room to grow" he has, if that makes sense? Like, he is so advanced in his level of play, so where does the growth happen.

1) Shooting. Guys who are willing to put in the work and have good hand eye coordination can always become better shooters.

2) Strength. Put him in an NBA strength program.

He'll also get even better at passing, floor vision, defending, etc.. But all that being said, there's no way I wouldn't take him No.1 right now. There are "if's" with every other top player. There are no "if's" with him.

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

FWIW, Simmons makes his impact on the defense end with his versatility. He can legitimately guard 1-5 with success and that's where his impact comes from so far. Bagley will never have that versatility and will be a negative on the defensive end atleast in the first few years.

It's questionable at best to say that Bagley is the betetr scorer than Simmons. simmons is highly efficient without a 3pt shot and he creates scoring opportunities for others with his passing... something that Bagley will never be able to do.
He scores 17 points a game on .506 eFG% while dishing 7.7 assists per game and grabbing 8.8 rebs per game, and yet his OBPM is currently at 0 and his ORTG is at a staggering low 104 OBPM while being surrounded with shooters. So to think that Bagley is for sure going to be a better scorer is a bit of a fantasy, especially as a rookie.

As far as rebounding goes... Simmons grabbed 13.5 rebounds per 40 (only 0.9 less than Bagley) as a rookie in college on a much lower on a team that plays at a muchhhh lower pace than Duke.

Simmons is a better athlete than Bagley and it's not close. Bagley is just an elite leaper, but other than that he isn't special.

 

[blommen]

1) Shooting. Guys who are willing to put in the work and have good hand eye coordination can always become better shooters.

2) Strength. Put him in an NBA strength program.

He'll also get even better at passing, floor vision, defending, etc.. But all that being said, there's no way I wouldn't take him No.1 right now. There are "if's" with every other top player. There are no "if's" with him.

It's tough for me, because looking at our team we need big man more than we need a playmaking wingman, and there are so many awesome big man prospects in this draft. Doncic is definitely the sure thing, but I don't know that I think he has the same ceilling as Ayton.

It doesn't really matter because we're most likely not going to end up with the number 1 pick, but I'm happy I don't have to make the decision, honestly.

 

[Nathan S]

1) Shooting. Guys who are willing to put in the work and have good hand eye coordination can always become better shooters.

2) Strength. Put him in an NBA strength program.

He'll also get even better at passing, floor vision, defending, etc.. But all that being said, there's no way I wouldn't take him No.1 right now. There are "if's" with every other top player. There are no "if's" with him.

It doesn't get talked about much, but Doncic's post game could get really dangerous if he continues to fill out his frame. He already leads all Euroleague perimeter players in rebounds, which gives a glimpse into how physically dominant he is even relative to grown men.

 

[blommen]

It doesn't get talked about much, but Doncic's post game could get really dangerous if he continues to fill out his frame. He already leads all Euroleague perimeter players in rebounds, which gives a glimpse into how physically dominant he is even relative to grown men.

Him being so big and playing PG unlocks the post for him in a major way for sure. I wouldn't be too sure of his rebounding numbers holding up entirely in the NBA, simply because the athletes are markedly bigger and stronger across the board. Still, he's young and it's definitely not a negative.

 

[Derek]

So who does everyone have in the 5-10 range? Seems like a very deep draft and some great tallent at that level. I keep hearing top talent, but curious what is there if this falls say number 8?

Has Trae Young been discussed much in here?

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

Same here, but when a freshman is averaging 4 blocks and 4 dimes per 40, it makes me think maybe I should start watching.



I'm sure he wasn't planning on it, but if he keeps playing like this he could be a top-10 pick easily. Hard to turn that down and go back to school.

I just think that Michael Porter Jr is definitely going to declare because of his injury, and that makes Jontay's chances of declaring very very low because of his father.

Jontay would probably like to stay and play for Missouri atleast for another year because of his father and their connections over there. Michael Porter, his father is the assistant coach over there and he was the one that recruited both of his sons, so to not get any playing time from the more talnted son and then lose the other borther who has shown great talent after just one year isn't in his best interests... especially on such talented draft. Next year is a much weaker draft and his chances of being drafted higher are much greater imo as well.

 

[Nathan S]

Him being so big and playing PG unlocks the post for him in a major way for sure. I wouldn't be too sure of his rebounding numbers holding up entirely in the NBA, simply because the athletes are markedly bigger and stronger across the board. Still, he's young and it's definitely not a negative.

I'm not saying he'll lead all NBA perimeter players in rebounds, but rebounding numbers actually translate pretty well, I think. Cedi for instance was averaging a modest 6 boards per 40 in Euroleague, and that number's up to 8.5 so far in the NBA, albeit in limited minutes.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

It's tough for me, because looking at our team we need big man more than we need a playmaking wingman, and there are so many awesome big man prospects in this draft. Doncic is definitely the sure thing, but I don't know that I think he has the same ceilling as Ayton.

It doesn't really matter because we're most likely not going to end up with the number 1 pick, but I'm happy I don't have to make the decision, honestly.

Doncic is 18. If by some miracle we ended up in the top 3, I think we have to draft the best player available, not who is the best "fit" as this roster is presently constructed.

I don't think he's exactly a "playmaking wingman." I think he's a true PG -- a Magic Johnson type of player with less size but perhaps better shooting.

 

[Nathan S]

I just think that Michael Porter Jr is definitely going to declare because of his injury, and that makes Jontay's chances of declaring very very low because of his father.

Jontay would probably like to stay and play for Missouri atleast for another year because of his father and their connections over there. Michael Porter, his father is the assistant coach over there and he was the one that recruited both of his sons, so to not get any playing time from the more talnted son and then lose the other borther who has shown great talent after just one year isn't in his best interests... especially on such talented draft. Next year is a much weaker draft and his chances of being drafted higher are much greater imo as well.

I can see it...it's just that the financial incentive for lengthening your NBA career by 1 year is so massive it's hard to turn it down, even if you have very good reasons to stay in college another year. It's why we see so many guys go 1-and-done, even if they're only projected to go in the late first round.

 

[blommen]

Doncic is 18. If by some miracle we ended up in the top 3, I think we have to draft the best player available, not who is the best "fit" as this roster is presently constructed.

I don't think he's exactly a "playmaking wingman." I think he's a true PG -- a Magic Johnson type of player with less size but perhaps better shooting.

Oh I think he's a far better shooter and has the potential to be a complete deadeye from three, honestly. Playmaking wingman was a poor choice of words and it generally stems from the comparison between him and manu, which I don't think is terrible, even if Luka's ceilling is probably higher. I just don't think you have a chance to draft him unless you have the first pick, and if we have that choice it's really hard for me not to look at Aytons upside and have a hard time picking between the two. It's not just a matter of what fits but also who has the higher ceilling.