2023-24 Season | Game #20 | Cavs @ Pistons | Dec. 2, 2023 | 7:00 p.m.

[2 For The Brew]

You could probably make that argument for two-thirds of the NBA right now since so many teams are hovering around. 500 ball. The NBA is way more competitive, and it is a long season on top of it.

We’re 1/4 of the season complete and both Warriors and Clippers are < .500.

Not many easy games on the schedule this season.

 

[2 For The Brew]

Feels like the JYD Chain winner to me

Agree but Strus was also a beast and Niang also battled. Those guys refused to let us lose.

 

[MirORich]

Yeah, just look at how we play when Mitchell is there, and isn't. It's night and day different, and let's be honest. It's BETTER when he's not there.

There is a Mitchell problem. I don't dislike the guy, I guess I'm sounding like a hater of his. I don't like his fit here at all.

I HOPE he requests a trade. Honestly, I do. I feel we can trade him and be FINE! Let Mitchell be happy, let us be happy.

This marriage just isn't working. I think both parties need out.

Might need to rewatch some of his best games from last year to see if any of them came primarily from him being in the glow of the offense or just from him being in attack mode at all times.

I think he’s to good to end up a cancer player or a stat padding loser.

Their is some combination of coaching, roster fit, and his own learning through failure that can work for him but I don’t think it’s here at this place in time and so to those people who basically said that at the time of the trade, I tip my hat to you.

We’re just not in a secure position with him contractually where it makes any sense at all to choose him and rebuild a roster around him vs around DG/Mobley

 

[Tlyons]

If Mitchell wasn't coming here with a proven coach, that trade should have never happened.

 

[Peacedog]

Could we get Bridges for him? I like the idea of a Garland/Strus/Bridges/Mobley/Allen starting 5.

 

[godfather]

Might need to rewatch some of his best games from last year to see if any of them came primarily from him being in the glow of the offense or just from him being in attack mode at all times.

I think he’s to good to end up a cancer player or a stat padding loser.

Their is some combination of coaching, roster fit, and his own learning through failure that can work for him but I don’t think it’s here at this place in time and so to those people who basically said that at the time of the trade, I tip my hat to you.

We’re just not in a secure position with him contractually where it makes any sense at all to choose him and rebuild a roster around him vs around DG/Mobley

I honestly don't think we'd rebuilding. I know many many disagree. I actually think we could trade Mitchell and be better as a team. I don't think we beat the Nuggets and Sixers with him.

Now, are we better without Mitchell overall (no trade and him just not playing)? No, because he's still a great talent. But we play BETTER when he's out. As a unit.

I am not impressed with him. I think he makes everyone on the court worse.

If there's anyway we could get good package for him, I hope they do it. I think we'd be better as a team. I don't think, I know it.

Mitchell to me is absolutely not a superstar.

Superstars make players better, not worse. I honestly don't think Garland, Allen, or Mobley enjoy playing with him one bit. They'll never admit, but I think all three don't enjoy it at all.

 

[bushwick_bill]

If Mitchell wasn't coming here with a proven coach, that trade should have never happened.

So then replacing JBB with a less experienced coach for the rest of the season is supposed to make any sense.

 

[Dr. Claw]

(steam coming out of his nose)

this would be the lowest-hanging-fruit "Fire JBB" game even in victory.

but given the games the Cavs have won, and the quality of those opponents....it's not just a JBB issue (would still want an upgrade)
point blank: the backcourt is playing like assholes far too often.
when DG was off, and DM was on.... the latter case was some of the worst the Cavs were playing all season. I was calling for CPJ and Okoro often (and JBB delivered, despite pulling CPJ early)

but I'm tired of seeing the bigs getting frozen out on offense. Mobley had less than 6 FGAs.... against THIS TEAM? Couldn't even get the ball if Donovan was handling.

I'm more mad at Donovan FITTING OUT than I did with LeVert last year (and you KNOW the lows of the LeVert Experience).

JA was working hard despite the conditions. Any time he takes a midrange and makes it, it's a good night.

Okoro was great (but was also falling back into some of his old bad habits....turning down split-second shots).

Niang saved the game IMO. Good on JBB making that substitution.

Strus got hot just in time. Very high quality player. But Niang needs some of that respect too.

Fuck both of those Bogdano-bitches though.... hate seeing those jabronis like I hate seeing Olynyk on the other side. It's always some shit with those guys.

Detroit is worse than I thought they would be (I thought it was just not having Cade. There are good players on that team, but together, they are pure ASS).

 

[Jscc]

And it’s not even about height. When Steoh has the ball, Klay runs all over the place to find looks via cuts, screens, picks. When Klay or Draymond have the ball, Steph of course moves as much as about anyone in the league ever has(on par with Ray Allen and Reggie Miller l)

When Mitchell has the ball, I feel like DG makes an earnest effort to move off ball as well(am I wrong?)

When DG has the ball, it feels like Mitchell does very limited movement, which has a cascade effect on how effective the movement of the other three guys can be.

I know now we have got to make a coaching change but I do not believe for one second JBB is just telling Mitchell to stand there and wait to get the ball back, because when Mitchell is out and DG is in, you see more movement and action from all four other guys.

May not be telling him directly, but with this offense, the result is the same. Cavs have a very basic half-court high pick and roll offense where the PG *is* the offense. There's not much space to move in the half-court.

I would rather he stand there then weave through defenders in limited space and wreck his shoulder when he inevitably runs into a planted defender. Strus can only get space like that off a screen as the ball handler. He's not getting those shots fed to him unless it's off a fast break.

 

[MirORich]

May not be telling him directly, but with this offense, the result is the same. Cavs have a very basic half-court high pick and roll offense where the PG *is* the offense. There's not much space to move in the half-court.

I would rather he stand there then weave through defenders in limited space and wreck his shoulder when he inevitably runs into a planted defender. Strus can only get space like that off a screen as the ball handler. He's not getting those shots fed to him unless it's off a fast break.

That made sense last year based on the talent and last minute trade for Mitchell. Where were the shooters that would make a more motion based offense succeed?

This year, with the addition of Strus and Niang to the team and a full year under their belts with the other main guys, you can justly argue that a more diverse offense should be implemented that contains the best of last year with the best of the new guys

For whatever reason, whether injury, ball handling ego clashes, rotation mistakes etc, it’s just not coming together.

I’m fully aboard the Bye Bye JBB train now but I still think people who pin the underwhelming start all on him and think that all are players will be magically fixed and optimized under a better coach are in for a world of hurt.

Most teams in the NBA never come close to putting together a core that reaches the Conference Finals once, let alone Finals. That’s reality.

It as fans, the only thing that satisfies us and makes us feel secure, safe, and rewarded in the investment of time we give to the franchise is the kind of certainty we got in the second LeBron era, we’re dreaming.

Now right now, some changes need to be made for the betterment of the future for sure. And a new leader/coach is the first domino that should fall. But as much as it’s easy to want to scapegoat and lump all the negative into an outgoing element, it’s just not reality. The new coach will come in and hopefully do many things better than JBB. But you can be sure that that new coach will also have shortcomings or blind spots of their own and that we still may need to make a drastic decision about Donovan.

I’m excited because I love being a Cleveland sports fan. But I know the odds of us getting to a ECF run are small and were always small.

TL: DR: mostly rambles

 

[godfather]

May not be telling him directly, but with this offense, the result is the same. Cavs have a very basic half-court high pick and roll offense where the PG *is* the offense. There's not much space to move in the half-court.

I would rather he stand there then weave through defenders in limited space and wreck his shoulder when he inevitably runs into a planted defender. Strus can only get space like that off a screen as the ball handler. He's not getting those shots fed to him unless it's off a fast break.

I don't think it's all on JBB. We saw a much different brand of basketball when Mitchell was out. Even with JBB here.

Ball movement, guys cutting, popping, and floor spacing. The offense is night and day different. It reminded us why we all started falling in love with this team, before the trade happen.

That was the basketball that made us excited. Sure, we are technically better since then, because we got a better player.

I liked where we were heading more, before the Mitchell trade. Sure, maybe we aren't as developed as we are now, but I like the trajectory a lot more, long-term, compared to now.

 

[cabs]

I would switch Mitchell for Bridges or Siakam, i think Mitchell is better than both but they fit better and we may just have to take an L for trading so much for a bad fit + flight risk player

 

[godfather]

I would switch Mitchell for Bridges or Siakam, i think Mitchell is better than both but they fit better and we may just have to take an L for trading so much for a bad fit + flight risk player

Dream come true trades. Hell, do a three way with New York. If wants to be there. They got some pieces for these other teams.

Bridges we are a much better team. Much better.

 

[Jscc]

That made sense last year based on the talent and last minute trade for Mitchell. Where were the shooters that would make a more motion based offense succeed?

This year, with the addition of Strus and Niang to the team and a full year under their belts with the other main guys, you can justly argue that a more diverse offense should be implemented that contains the best of last year with the best of the new guys

For whatever reason, whether injury, ball handling ego clashes, rotation mistakes etc, it’s just not coming together.

I’m fully aboard the Bye Bye JBB train now but I still think people who pin the underwhelming start all on him and think that all are players will be magically fixed and optimized under a better coach are in for a world of hurt.

Most teams in the NBA never come close to putting together a core that reaches the Conference Finals once, let alone Finals. That’s reality.

It as fans, the only thing that satisfies us and makes us feel secure, safe, and rewarded in the investment of time we give to the franchise is the kind of certainty we got in the second LeBron era, we’re dreaming.

Now right now, some changes need to be made for the betterment of the future for sure. And a new leader/coach is the first domino that should fall. But as much as it’s easy to want to scapegoat and lump all the negative into an outgoing element, it’s just not reality. The new coach will come in and hopefully do many things better than JBB. But you can be sure that that new coach will also have shortcomings or blind spots of their own and that we still may need to make a drastic decision about Donovan.

I’m excited because I love being a Cleveland sports fan. But I know the odds of us getting to a ECF run are small and were always small.

TL: DR: mostly rambles

I remember the 2016 finals. When Curry tried running around like that in the half court, Cavs beat the $#!+ out of him. Tugged his jersey, grabbed his arm, inched their hip out to bump him, stuck a leg out to trip him, put there shoulder into his chest, etc., looked like he was running an obstacle course. It was hilarious.

 

[jjvors]

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