2023-24 Season | Game #45 | Pistons @ Cavs | Jan. 31, 2024 | 7:00 p.m.

[David.]

All true, but the issue of beating up on the bums while struggling against better teams was with us all last season.

The team deserves a chance to see if it can make the Garland/Mitchell pairing a synergistic one rather than one that is less than the sum of its parts. However, the reality is that for more than a year, that pairing has not been synergistic, nor does the pairing of two ball-dominant guards have a good history in the NBA as a whole.

Garland/Mitchell have to become the exception, because the rule is not in their favor.

Didn't we just cite a bunch of stats that said it works really well?

 

[Dr No]

Did we lose in the first round last year due to positional redundancy?

I think that's what our next trip to the playoffs will help clarify.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Didn't we just cite a bunch of stats that said it works really well?

Not in the post to which I was replying. Previously, the stats overall show that we're better with both of them on the floor - although that's different from being synergistic - but the weakness of the stats is that they didn't distinguish between performance against good v. bad teams.

Also, the bulk of the stats were from last year, when we lacked outside shooting and so Garland's shooting was a plus regardless. This year...don't yet know.

 

[BimboColesHair]

I think JBB coached another great game. We were contesting their shots but yet Detroit shot 52% from 3 and 56% from the floor. Those are insane numbers, especially from 3. Yet. because of our own offense we still won the game. We had only 9 turnovers, in 55 combined minutes, only 3 turnovers from our 2 point guards. 5 if you throw in LeVert in a total of 80 minutes.

Sometimes teams get hot,. Winning this type of game is a good sign, not a bad one in my opinion.

Detroit shot 57% from the floor when the closest defender was 0-2 feet away.

They shot 60.5% from the floor and 60% from 3 when the closest defender was 2-4 feet away.

Those attempts accounted for 45 of their 81 FGAs.

For reference, the best team in the league when the closest defender is 0-2 feet away shoots 54% from the floor.

The best team in the league when the closest defender is 2-4 feet away shoots 56.4% from the floor and 38.3% from 3.

The average team takes 51% of their shot attempts under those conditions.

To say Detroit made a lot of tough shots last night is an understatement.

 

[Lee]

Detroit shot 57% from the floor when the closest defender was 0-2 feet away.

They shot 60.5% from the floor and 60% from 3 when the closest defender was 2-4 feet away.

Those attempts accounted for 45 of their 81 FGAs.

For reference, the best team in the league when the closest defender is 0-2 feet away shoots 54% from the floor.

The best team in the league when the closest defender is 2-4 feet away shoots 56.4% from the floor and 38.3% from 3.

The average team takes 51% of their shot attempts under those conditions.

To say Detroit made a lot of tough shots last night is an understatement.

Such great analytics. I mean the real reason we won is because of Mitchell. We were guarding them tough, but they just made some incredible shots, its professional basketball at its highest level, it happens. Sometimes a pitcher throws a great pitch and a hitter still clears the fences.

But our boy Mitchell is an Alpha, a dog, what ever you want to call him. He can ball, and his defense hasnt been just average this year, its been good.

 

[Dr. Claw]

Merrill got burned a few times on defense I noticed, but his shot is wet and contagious and can be such a momentum changer, he has to continue to get his minutes even if he doesnt get 2nd half minutes in games he isnt effective like the Clippers.

at least it appears that JBB is committing to that idea. Same as LeVert being strictly a bench player unless disaster strikes. Now we just need him to recognize that if he's on the court, so must also be Donovan, DG, or CPJ.

 

[2 For The Brew]

Not in the post to which I was replying. Previously, the stats overall show that we're better with both of them on the floor - although that's different from being synergistic - but the weakness of the stats is that they didn't distinguish between performance against good v. bad teams.

Also, the bulk of the stats were from last year, when we lacked outside shooting and so Garland's shooting was a plus regardless. This year...don't yet know.

This year … don’t yet know.
This year … don’t yet know.
This year … don’t yet know.

Carve it in stone. We don’t know. Nobody knows. Any valid statistical analysis must have a stable population for samples. Due to injuries this season has been chaotic. We don’t know what we have overall.

For example, we’re up three at home with five minutes to go in a playoff game vs Boston. Who is in our death lineup? Based on how we’ve done recently DM, Okoro and Allen are in for sure but who else? Is DG’s offense worth the defensive weakness? If we put in Mobley with Allen already in do we sacrifice too much on the offensive end? Does LeVert play because he can create his own shot and play defense? How about Strus or Wade? What about Niang’s experience and ability to create an ugly drive to the rim? Or maybe Sam if he’s had a hot night?

To @The Oi ’s point we could create narratives for any of the above players. But what’s the best death lineup for the playoffs? That’s of more interest to me than who starts. I don’t think we know enough to answer with any confidence but we’re going to need to figure that out in the next 2 1/2 months along with a bunch of other rotation questions.

The place to be is right here. I can’t remember a time when we had a roster this deep and so many possible combinations to put on the floor. It’s a great problem to have but it IS a problem (in fact will be a problem every game) and figuring out the right combinations to use at each point of every game will be challenging and generate a ton of great basketball discussions on this site. Great time to be a serious Cavaliers fan.

 

[Lee]

at least it appears that JBB is committing to that idea. Same as LeVert being strictly a bench player unless disaster strikes. Now we just need him to recognize that if he's on the court, so must also be Donovan, DG, or CPJ.

I think JBB got caught a bit off guard last night. DG is limitted to 20 minutes and DM was not ready to come back in. When healthy, CPJ is just out of the rotation. Merrill is our 10th rotation piece and still in the rotation. There is no chance or reason to go to a 11 person rotation, not that you said we should.

 

[Dr No]

Detroit shot 57% from the floor when the closest defender was 0-2 feet away.

They shot 60.5% from the floor and 60% from 3 when the closest defender was 2-4 feet away.

Those attempts accounted for 45 of their 81 FGAs.

For reference, the best team in the league when the closest defender is 0-2 feet away shoots 54% from the floor.

The best team in the league when the closest defender is 2-4 feet away shoots 56.4% from the floor and 38.3% from 3.

The average team takes 51% of their shot attempts under those conditions.

To say Detroit made a lot of tough shots last night is an understatement.

Those are helpful numbers to see that Detroit played better than they normally would be expected to play. The weakness in that analytic is that while it can measure how close the defender is, it can't measure "who" the defender is. There is little doubt that having Garland 2 feet from you is a much easier shot than Okoro 2 feet from you. Or Wade closing out on a 3 pointer from 2-4 feet is a much tougher shot than Niang or Strus doing the same. My guess is their hot night shooting is a reflection of both our personnel and them just making hard shots.

 

[BimboColesHair]

Those are helpful numbers to see that Detroit played better than they normally would be expected to play. The weakness in that analytic is that while it can measure how close the defender is, it can't measure "who" the defender is. There is little doubt that having Garland 2 feet from you is a much easier shot than Okoro 2 feet from you. Or Wade closing out on a 3 pointer from 2-4 feet is a much tougher shot than Niang or Strus doing the same. My guess is their hot night shooting is a reflection of both our personnel and them just making hard shots.

The perks about modern day numbers is they come from tracking data on the players, so the stats include who the closest defender was as determined by the chip on the player and this is stuff you can find.

Most of their tight to very tight defended makes last night came against Allen, Okoro, Mitchell, Mobley, and Wade. Those were the 5 most frequent defenders.

The 5 most frequent scorers in these situations were Cade 5/10 (4/8 on Okoro, 1/2 on Garland), Duren 5/8 (4/6 on Allen, 1/2 on Mobley), Knox 4/6 (2/2 on Wade, 1/2 on Allen, 1/2 on Mobley), Morris 3/4 (2/3 on Mitchell, 1/1 on Garland), and Ivey 3/4 (2/3 on Mitchell, 1/1 on Merrill).

 

[wuck]

We had only 9 turnovers, in 55 combined minutes, only 3 turnovers from our 2 point guards. 5 if you throw in LeVert in a total of 80 minutes.

Can we just not throw LeVert into any general discussion of “point guards” playing for the Cavs? You are really making me unsettled here.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

The one thing that we should see less of is the Caris PG lineup. You mentioned the issue with it twice in the full recap. End of the 1st quarter and end of third.

• And guess what type of lineup saw that small Pistons run at the end of the third? A LeVert as the only ball-handler lineup.

Caris was +7 last night in a 7-point win. Good thing we had that Caris PG lineup.

 

[MirORich]

Can we just not throw LeVert into any general discussion of “point guards” playing for the Cavs? You are really making me unsettled here.

We can call him whatever anyone wants but with a 4.1 assists to 1.5 TO’s per game, he is certainly one of our most reliable playmakers

 

[2 For The Brew]

Caris was +7 last night in a 7-point win. Good thing we had that Caris PG lineup.

“Caris is our wayward son
“There’s no peace when he plays 1
“But he scores right at the death
“Don’t you cry no more.”

 

[wuck]

We can call him whatever anyone wants but with a 4.1 assists to 1.5 TO’s per game, he is certainly one of our most reliable playmakers

I didn’t have a problem with him playing but when he was the closest thing to a pg on the floor at the end of the 3rd that was horrific. Jbb get the offensive balance right please. I will not describe him as “playing pg.”