2023 College Football/Playoffs (on the field)

[TheLand1287]

I didn't "spend my evening here"......I came in and gave a few jabs. And in that process, have repeatedly have identified people with paper mache skin. Plenty of others have been good sports about it......but here you are again, worrying about what people are doing with their own time. I find it odd that you don't actually participate in this thread but want to worry about what others are doing in it.



You are entirely out of touch with reality if you believe this (vacate) stuff at this point......that is all the comment was about. Seemed pretty simple to understand. You have spent way too much time reading the fantasy stories all these Ohio State media personalities are telling about NCAA sanctions and the wet dreams about a title being vacated (that isn't even awarded by the NCAA). I said if Harbaugh knew, he would be fired. The NCAA already came out and publicly said they did not have evidence that he did.

Has nothing to do with chest pumping time. It was a couple light hearted barbs that you apparently can't stomach. Michigan laid waste to all comers......there's nothing left. Anyone hanging on to this stuff is just desperate. And it does seem desperate to jump in a thread and start trying to be the message board police. Stallions was removed, coach was suspended, Michigan ran through two top 10 teams, won another conference title, beat Bama and snuffed out the only undefeated team left. Carry on with all this if you want. The only people clutching these pearls are your types.

I've posted in here in the past. There are certain members in Buckeye subsection (hint: named after a Transformer) that I can't tolerate so have resorted to more lurker status than posting and engaging with those types. Not trying to police anything. Just calling a spade a spade. The way you engaged people was much different months ago than what it is today. You went from reasonable and level headed to full on Twitter troll that's embracing the villain role. You just admitted you only came in here last night to throw barbs. Even just changed your avi to Jim Harbough.

And maybe Ohio State fans, I cant speak for all, feel that wins could be vacated because it quite literally happened to Ohio State a little over a decade ago over something minor in retrospect compared to what Michigan is being accused of. I also dont expect wins will be vacated but alot of that has to do with the NCAA being a shell of itself today compared to what it was in the past. Also, they did next to nothing to Kansas. Basically the NCAA is telling us if you arent cheating in 2023 you arent trying.

There's no point in jumping to conclusions about what Michigan did/didnt do because we dont have all the information yet. Taking the cheating allegations out of it I will say this about this Michigan team and their natty as just some random guy's opinion on a message board...

- They're a very good team. Maybe not as elite talent wise like the teams that are consistently top 5 in recruiting, but a very strong team that developed, schemes well, and their players play hard for the guy next to them.
- Having 40+ seniors and 6th year guys was a massive benefit when playing against a lot of 18-20 year olds. That additional COVID year can't end soon enough. Good for them for using it to their advantage while the Alabama's, Georgia's, Ohio State's of the world are very much churn and burn with NFL talent leaving after 3 years and 5 star backups getting impatient and transferring out. The playing field has been leveled in recent years.
- Jim, even if he is on the spectrum, is a very good coach. I think the most surprising thing is it took him 6 years to start beating good teams and 9 years to win a title. This new age of college football (increased eligibility, transfer portal) combined with some help from his brother on assistant coaches definitely helped change the narrative of his time there.
- I'm not saying Ohio State wins a rematch but the Big Ten and their love for lopsided divisions cost the CFB world a rematch at a neutral site. The Game was very competitive and played at Michigan. Not an extreme statement to say a neutral site rematch would have went another way, but we'll never know. Is what it is.
- Alabama win was nice, and yes Bama beat Georgia, but I think anyone that knows ball would say Bama was pretty flawed this year and they just got Georgia on a good day. I would be interested to see Georgia vs Michigan. I still think Georgia would likely be both favored and win that game but we'll never know. Michigan beat the teams in front of them which is all you can ask, but this was far from the hardest road to a title.

I'm not saying that last bullet to be disingenuous but I've seen alot of Michigan fans this morning say this is one of the best CFB teams of all time. I think they were more of a "team of destiny" in a sense. A lot of sports is timing and everything clicked at the right time for them. They had the adversity, albeit self inflicted, but they also had a lot of things go their way. I think they are a very good team. I also think the following went in their favor... covid year, transfer portal leveling the playing field, cupcake schedule, OSU at home, avoided playing either Georgia or FSU with Jordan Travis who I think with him they were on that same tier with Michigan, Bama only getting in because Texas got in and because FSU was on a backup QB. Credit to Michigan's defense for a good gameplan but Penix all of a sudden he and his WRs shit down their legs after lighting up it all year. That's sports though. Just being the most talented team doesnt guarantee you anything. Need some lucky breaks along the way. They won the games in front of them, thus they're a worthy champion. It will be interesting to see what happens next for them assuming Harbough and JJ leave and all the guys that are out of eligibility. I would think Minter goes with Harbough, and Moore is the next HC. Uncharted territory for them for sure.

 

[MRMsix6]

What is rude? Talking about a game Michigan just played in?

It is seriously amazing what the last few years have done to some of you guys.

You can't even have a conversation on a message board about things.

The terminally online contingent of OSU fandom is completely and utterly mentally boomed.

 

[Tlyons]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Pac12/s/qyZPS0Wdjp

Not all of these are penalties and I'm sure this went on on both sides.

But damn, you absolutely have to call that hold after you did the same to UW on the previous drive for something even more egregious.

Penix still shit the bed.

Ok now I'm done. Meant to post this earlier

 

[I'mWithDan]

But damn, you absolutely have to call that hold after you did the same to UW on the previous drive for something even more egregious.

The hold they missed on Jones was screened out by the action of the play. It was just unlucky more than anything.

When they show the multi angle views of that back, the umpire can't see Jones' left arm at all.....it is screened by the DT/RG..... nor can he see the defensive players' jersey separating. The head referee was then positioned deep on the right side of the formation...some 15+ yards in the backfield. When Jones turns his back to the head referee, as the edge rusher crashes inside, he can't see the tug because of the body positions of the two players and that Jones generally hid the tug well with his arm inside.

I think that one specific play wasn't a blown call......was just a lucky break where both refs were screened enough to make it hard to see in real time.

 

[Tlyons]

The hold they missed on Jones was screened out by the action of the play. It was just unlucky more than anything.

When they show the multi angle views of that back, the umpire can't see Jones' left arm at all.....it is screened by the DT/RG..... nor can he see the defensive players' jersey separating. The head referee was then positioned deep on the right side of the formation...some 15+ yards in the backfield. When Jones turns his back to the head referee, as the edge rusher crashes inside, he can't see the tug because of the body positions of the two players and that Jones generally hid the tug well with his arm inside.

I think that one specific play wasn't a blown call......was just a lucky break where both refs were screened enough to make it hard to see in real time.

You could be right but why would you share a photo that doesn't even show the head ref?

 

[I'mWithDan]

You could be right but why would you share a photo that doesn't even show the head ref?

He’s so far out of the screen, on the right hash you can’t see him. I was just pointing out his angle. It was one where he would have a better view of the LT and a much more obscured view of the RT, when the RT turns the way Jones did on that block.

 

[I'mWithDan]

but Penix all of a sudden he and his WRs shit down their legs after lighting up it all year.

And everyone gave me shit for posts that were too long…..

I think this single quote sums up the collective season for Michigan. “All of the sudden”. People speak in terms like this a lot. Like there is this unexplainable force that made players not play up to their ability. Many seem really incapable of coming to the conclusion that, if players continually play below their baseline against a defense, it is no longer coincidence. But (and you are not alone), there is a large swath of fans who keep looking at the forest and are going to great lengths to explain why all the redwoods are actually shrubs.

I'm not saying that last bullet to be disingenuous but I've seen alot of Michigan fans this morning say this is one of the best CFB teams of all time.

SP+ ranked them tied at 99.4%, #2 overall in the SP+ era…..tied with 2022 Georgia.

Their defense ranked #2, 0.1% behind 2011 Alabama at 99.7%

I can’t take anyone serious who wants to just flat out refute this and talk about things like “40 seniors”, which I see is the new OSU talking point emerging. The number of talking points that have been spun up is embarrassing at this point. Snow, flu, signs, seniors…..they keep coming.

Everyone loved SP+ around these parts…..that was until it kept saying Michigan was going to beat everyone. And then after they did, firmly planting them on the Mount Rushmore of college teams. Guess that is blind fandom to a tee, which I can’t get mad at.

cupcake schedule

Appreciate the cherry on top of this unserious sundae.

The last 6 games of Michigan’s season were, by virtue of the final AP poll:

@ #13 Penn State
@Maryland
#10 Ohio State
#24 Iowa
#5 Alabama
#2 Washington

In 6 weeks, they beat 4 top 15 teams, two of which finished in the top 5. The one unranked team they played (Maryland), smoked Auburn in a bowl. Without opt outs, OSU and PSU are probably both single digit ranks.

Michigan had the #1 SOR, #1 FPI and #7 SOS. Against all those measures, they ranked #1 in game control.

Georgia, this new narrative everyone wants to cling to as well, faced the #23 SOS and lost to a team Michigan thoroughly pushed around physically.

I guess in the end it is just your opinion but the body of work is insane to be clinging to narratives like this. Analytically, Michigan is one of the best teams of all time. I know it stings…..but welcome to the new reality for everyone.

 

[Chris]

Meh. I’ve already moved on. In a few weeks nobody will even be talking about this CFP. If you asked which sucked more, watching Michigan win or OSU being a kick away from a natty last year, I’d say the latter x100000000.

Gave Michigan their props - anyone who thought Michigan would never make noise ever again is a fool.

Like I said, it’s now up to OSU to respond. Thus the nature of sports.

 

[I'mWithDan]

In a few weeks nobody will even be talking about this CFP.

Appreciate you @Chris. One of the real ones in all the CFP thread nonsense.

Definitely agree with the sentiment that when you are the one swinging the axe, it’s exponentially more painful falling short. Experienced that in both ‘21 and ‘22. It is just a different kind of feeling in your gut.

Once the destiny of your rival is no longer in your hands, there’s not much to be done. You hope it doesn’t go their way but it is easier to stomach than your own team being on the doorstep and falling short.

Should be a fun 2024 season. Lots of narratives laying out on table. We’ll see who can retain control and who can wrestle some of it away.

 

[Chris]

Appreciate you @Chris. One of the real ones in all the CFP thread nonsense.

Definitely agree with the sentiment that when you are the one swinging the axe, it’s exponentially more painful falling short. Experienced that in both ‘21 and ‘22. It is just a different kind of feeling in your gut.

Once the destiny of your rival is no longer in your hands, there’s not much to be done. You hope it doesn’t go their way but it is easier to stomach than your own team being on the doorstep and falling short.

Should be a fun 2024 season. Lots of narratives laying out on table. We’ll see who can retain control and who can wrestle some of it away.

Lol. Well, I know UM fans will be talking about it, but you know. The sports news cycle moves fast.

Anyway, I will always sports-hate Michigan and I’m not gonna sit here and act like it didn’t suck seeing you bitches win. But it’s not like the shoe has never been on the other foot, and sooner or later, it will be again. That’s how this all works.

I can’t watch what Michigan did this year and not acknowledge that they are clearly very, very good and passed every test that got thrown at them. That would just be sour grapes and that’s fodder for Twitter IMO - in a circle of friends, like what I consider this forum, I think we can admit a rival team’s accomplishments are relatively impressive.

2024 will be a blast, OSU is not a program that sits on its hands in the face of adversity like this so I’m really excited to see if we can strike back.

But in all seriousness, fuck you guys and I can’t wait to tap that ass in November. The spank bank needs refilled since 2019.

 

[TheLand1287]

And everyone gave me shit for posts that were too long…..

I think this single quote sums up the collective season for Michigan. “All of the sudden”. People speak in terms like this a lot. Like there is this unexplainable force that made players not play up to their ability. Many seem really incapable of coming to the conclusion that, if players continually play below their baseline against a defense, it is no longer coincidence. But (and you are not alone), there is a large swath of fans who keep looking at the forest and are going to great lengths to explain why all the redwoods are actually shrubs.



SP+ ranked them tied at 99.4%, #2 overall in the SP+ era…..tied with 2022 Georgia.

Their defense ranked #2, 0.1% behind 2011 Alabama at 99.7%

I can’t take anyone serious who wants to just flat out refute this and talk about things like “40 seniors”, which I see is the new OSU talking point emerging. The number of talking points that have been spun up is embarrassing at this point. Snow, flu, signs, seniors…..they keep coming.

Everyone loved SP+ around these parts…..that was until it kept saying Michigan was going to beat everyone. And then after they did, firmly planting them on the Mount Rushmore of college teams. Guess that is blind fandom to a tee, which I can’t get mad at.



Appreciate the cherry on top of this unserious sundae.

The last 6 games of Michigan’s season were, by virtue of the final AP poll:

@ #13 Penn State
@Maryland
#10 Ohio State
#24 Iowa
#5 Alabama
#2 Washington

In 6 weeks, they beat 4 top 15 teams, two of which finished in the top 5. The one unranked team they played (Maryland), smoked Auburn in a bowl. Without opt outs, OSU and PSU are probably both single digit ranks.

Michigan had the #1 SOR, #1 FPI and #7 SOS. Against all those measures, they ranked #1 in game control.

Georgia, this new narrative everyone wants to cling to as well, faced the #23 SOS and lost to a team Michigan thoroughly pushed around physically.

I guess in the end it is just your opinion but the body of work is insane to be clinging to narratives like this. Analytically, Michigan is one of the best teams of all time. I know it stings…..but welcome to the new reality for everyone.

Again, with this post, you're proving my point and many others which started this whole thing with you being called out. A month ago you were just a humble Michigan fan in enemy territory of an OSU subforum willing to shoot the shit about our respective teams. Until your team started winning it's big games and you grew tired of the OSU homerism and cheating talk about vacated wins. Then the chest pumping and condescending attitude came out in full display.

I don't know who you're talking to as far as some of the points you're making above with accepting this new reality and it stinging. My wife is a Michigan fan. I didnt cry myself to sleep Monday night because they won. It's whatever to me. I'm a Browns fan.. I've seen Steelers and Ravens win championships. This isn't something new. Of course I don't want to see a rival win a title but I woke up on Tuesday morning and the sun was out. It's just sports at the end of the day. Michigan hasn't won an undisputed title since 1948. Good for them for finally breaking through. Had to happen sometime. However, I dont think the points I made were that controversial. They caught lightening in a bottle with the COVID year, transfer portal, and upgraded their coaching staff and used it to their advantage to combat lack of elite recruits and not being huge NIL players. I don't know how else to describe how Harbough went 6 years of being ok during his tenure at Michigan, while losing most of his big games, to winning a title. History tells us it's more of a one off than a trend but none of us know the future and if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. Time will tell.

My issue with you is you start making personal comments about "length of post, unserious sundaes, embarrassing talking points, etc." Buddy, you're just a guy on the message board. You're not important enough to talk to anyone that way just because you disagree.

That's cute your SP+ analytical numbers show Michigan dominated 9 shitty teams early in the year on defense. Again, I'm sure 40+ seniors had NOTHING to do with that. Later in the year the schedule picked up. Yes, Michigan won all those games. However, you're acting like they dominated these teams. Maryland and OSU were one score games. Your comment about the defense making great players (Penix) look mediocre... Ok, Tua and McCord looked about the same against Michigan than they did against their other competition. Penix missing a wide open Odunze for a TD had nothing to do with Michigan’s defense. Neither did the dropped passes. They get credit for a good scheme with the two high safeties to make Washington go underneath and for the good open field tackling. I dont care what Iowa was ranked they are an unserious team and everyone knows that. Alabama was like an 80% favorite to win before Michigan's 4th quarter drive. Washington game was one score until mid way through the 4th when Michigan pulled away. You were shitting yourself, as you said, thinking they would eventually find their rhythm.

Michigan won their important games to win their title. Whether they looked like world beaters or caught a few lucky breaks is irrelevant. I just don't think they're on a Mt Rushmore of all time great CFB teams. For me those would be teams dominant on both sides of the ball statistically. If you want to think that though, hey, go for it. Just don't see why you need to be condescending to others for not sharing the same sentiment.

 

[Rich]

Michigan had the best team all year. They could beat the other top teams even w/o great QB play. None of the other teams could do that. They had the best lines and have had the best lines, along with Georgia, for three years running.

I do wish Penix had played an A game to make the game closer. He didn't just miss some tight throws. He missed some wide open, touchdown throws.

But Michigan didn't even have to make those plays to win. THey just dominated the line of scrimmage as they have all year.

 

[lukecfg]

Michigan had the best team all year. They could beat the other top teams even w/o great QB play. None of the other teams could do that. They had the best lines and have had the best lines, along with Georgia, for three years running.

I do wish Penix had played an A game to make the game closer. He didn't just miss some tight throws. He missed some wide open, touchdown throws.

But Michigan didn't even have to make those plays to win. THey just dominated the line of scrimmage as they have all year.

Everything you said is true. And congratulations @I'mWithDan - you had the best team and the Michigan team played hard and executed well.

Completely disagree this is one of the best teams of all time, but that consideration is an understandable indulgence for fans inexperienced with success. (How's that for Michigan level condescension )

 

[Ohio]

I mean, as most of us have said all year long, there was no elite team in CFB this year. With that said, Michigan showed they were the best team this year. Would Georgia have won if they made it? Maybe. If the Big Ten got rid of their fucking divisions years ago like they should have, would things have changed in a rematch in Indy? Maybe. But at the end of the day they went 15-0, so it is what it is. The stars really aligned for them this year; I could not imagine this team winning in the 2015-2020 period where Bama and Clemson had elite teams every single year. Plus OSU and LSU in 2019 (jesus christ was that year ridiculous, talk about bad luck).

When people look back at the 4 team CFP era, these are the Champions that will stand out above the rest (in no order):

2020 Bama
2019 LSU
2016 Clemson
2021-2022 Georgia (really only because they went back-to-back)

2015 Bama and 2018 Clemson as Honorable Mentions only because their schools had better teams in the previously mentioned seasons.

But really, it was an era mostly dominated by Bama and Clemson. And then Georgia going back-to-back. It's actually kinda funny though that the Big Ten snuck in there in the first year (OSU) and the final year (Michigan), each defeating two of Saban's weakest teams at Bama (Blake Sims and Jalen Milroe, I mean, lol).

Anyway, I've always thought comparing or ranking Championship teams is kinda goofy. Like who really cares? All that matters is that you were the best team that year. I don't give two shits where people rank 2002 or 2014 OSU amongst Championship teams. Similarly I couldn't care less where people rank the 2016 Cavs amongst NBA Champions.

TL;DR - Nobody outside of Michigan is going to confuse this team with some of the best in the era, let alone of all-time. But it doesn't matter.

 

[I'mWithDan]

They caught lightening in a bottle with the COVID year, transfer portal, and upgraded their coaching staff and used it to their advantage to combat lack of elite recruits and not being huge NIL players. I don't know how else to describe how Harbough went 6 years of being ok during his tenure at Michigan, while losing most of his big games, to winning a title. History tells us it's more of a one off than a trend but none of us know the future and if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. Time will tell.

You are speaking as if this is the end of the 2021 season or something.

We are in the midst of a 3 year stretch where Michigan is 40-3 overall, 27-1 in conference, 3 consecutive B1G titles, 3 consecutive CFP appearances, A national championship…..is that not better than any 3 year run OSU has had during their golden years?

This is why you are being called unserious. Distilling down that level of sustained success in to singular attributes or calling it lightening in a bottle, is just hilariously misguided. Sorry if you feel like that is condescending putting it in to those terms.

Completely disagree this is one of the best teams of all time, but that consideration is an understandable indulgence for fans inexperienced with success. (How's that for Michigan level condescension )

Hey, hey, hey. Sorry I was a little hard on the guy parachuting in to the thread playing message board police.

I’ve experienced more trophies than losses since Covid. I feel like I’m almost too experienced with success at this point.

All I did was use an objective measure to anchor their place in history. An objective measure that many people consider the gold standard in the analytical ranking era. He didn’t like it because there wasn’t an argument to be had. He just came in here regurgitating talking points and then trying to call me condescending, when he’s continuing to try to stand on subjective ideas that SP+ accounts for…..like it being opponent adjusted…..but I get it, not everyone loves analytics.