24 Off-Season GM Thread

[Gson]

I don't agree with the bolded, which is why the risk exists for me.

His best tool has always been his mental view of the game. I think, at the MLB level, everything else he does is average right now. The arm, the defense at SS, the speed. He just hasn't progressed any further in those areas, a lot of which has to do with God given physical limitations.

If he is going to be an impact player in the MLB his bat is going to have to carry him, and therein lies the risk and why the batted ball metrics are a major concern.

So you're postulating that young Mr. Rocchio has plateaued or isn't progressing?.. Interesting concept.. that's not hard to grasp or agree with.. but is counterintuitive to an exceptionally high BB IQ.. no?.. It has to be assumed he has been confronted with this "situation" and has done "what???" to raise his game?? The Guardians FO rewards hard workers who grow their talent.... but, like gold, you can't mine something that's not there... Like Freeman, who's become bigger, stronger.. and more diverse is and should be rewarded.. The same can be said about Arias.. It cannot be said about Rocchio.. No???

 

[Tondo]

I think this is where you and I have most of our disagreement. You think they're fucked if they "chose wrong". Me, I don't think they've chosen anything and if neither claims the position they have a few other good options. One of them being Gimenez moving back to SS and one of Brito or Martinez staking a claim.

Arias got the "clean sheet, red carpet" because he's the more talented player Tondo. I think you have a pretty good baseball mind so you have to see it. What I can't understand is how you are so locked onto Rocchio. If we're being honest neither has been awe inspiring, but the more talented individual is blatant.

Edited to ask a question that I thought of after posting. If you were promised that both Rocchio and Arias would reach their ceilings which one would you choose? Like I said, they have to find out even though Arias is the bigger risk. He's also the biggest reward.

Here are my ceiling grades for both:

Arias 40 hit, 55 power, 60 glove... 240/310/440
Rocchio 60 hit, 45 power, 55 glove....275/345/415

Both would be pretty good MLB starting SS, but I still prefer Rocchio's ceiling, because it offers more stability year to year. Arias has 60+ raw power, but lack of contact and groundball heavy data cap it at 55 for me. And Arias needs much more development to get there than Rocchio imo.

 

[CDAV45]

Here are my ceiling grades for both:

Arias 40 hit, 55 power, 60 glove... 240/310/440
Rocchio 60 hit, 45 power, 55 glove....275/345/415

Both would be pretty good MLB starting SS, but I still prefer Rocchio's ceiling, because it offers more stability year to year. Arias has 60+ raw power, but lack of contact and groundball heavy data cap it at 55 for me. And Arias needs much more development to get there than Rocchio imo.

....and I mostly have no issues with any of that. I too think that Rocchio is a safer bet in terms of offensive performance, but the standard is less than I expect from Arias. The only minor issue for me is the discrepency of their respective hit ratings you listed. I'd close the gap a little. Something like 60 to 50 or 50 to 40.

 

[CDAV45]

I'd be keeping my eye on Garrett Cooper. He may opt out of his deal with the Cubs.

 

[sportscoach]

I'd be keeping my eye on Garrett Cooper. He may opt out of his deal with the Cubs.

DDLS is the guy...

 

[CDAV45]

DDLS is the guy...

DDLS isn't likely to help this club much Coach and you know it. If they can pull off a trade for his rights they'll do it because having him on the roster is a disadvantage for both him and the team it seems.

 

[sportscoach]

DDLS isn't likely to help this club much Coach and you know it. If they can pull off a trade for his rights they'll do it because having him on the roster is a disadvantage for both him and the team it seems.

But they have decided to keep him regardless... He's made the roster IF Arizona doesn't take the deal we have given them...

 

[CDAV45]

But they have decided to keep him regardless... He's made the roster IF Arizona doesn't take the deal we have given them...

That doesn't make DDLS "the guy". They'll still need a useful roster even if he's on it.

 

[sportscoach]

That doesn't make DDLS "the guy". They'll still need a useful roster even if he's on it.

Aka they arent going to sign Garrett Cooper...

 

[Mott the Hoople]

some interesting names available:

Trey Mancini cut loose. Available for the MLB minimum. Cubs pay the balance of his contract. Could be an interesting placeholder until Manzardo is ready.

RP Phil Bickford also DFA by Mets.

 

[CDAV45]

some interesting names available:

Trey Mancini cut loose. Available for the MLB minimum. Cubs pay the balance of his contract. Could be an interesting placeholder until Manzardo is ready.

RP Phil Bickford also DFA by Mets.

I don't think they'll have any interest in anyone like Mancini. The DH/1B AB will go to Arias and/or Fry is my best guess.

 

[CDAV45]

Is there more interest/motivation to extend Bieber now that Espino suffered another injury? It would be risky, but.......

If they don't extend him does he last until the break or go before?

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Is there more interest/motivation to extend Bieber now that Espino suffered another injury? It would be risky, but.......

If they don't extend him does he last until the break or go before?

If Biebs feels good, and pitches good, he would be crazy to sign an extension.
I think his best value would be near the trade deadline. We might be around .500, but not much better. So it shouldn't be that big an issue.
I see the 24 season as sort of like a bridge/transition season. (to the DeLauter/Manzardo/Condon years.)

 

[sportscoach]

If Biebs feels good, and pitches good, he would be crazy to sign an extension.
I think his best value would be near the trade deadline. We might be around .500, but not much better. So it shouldn't be that big an issue.
I see the 24 season as sort of like a bridge/transition season. (to the DeLauter/Manzardo/Condon years.)

Cleveland can win this division...

 

[CDAV45]

Cleveland can win this division...

So can Minnesota, Detroit and Kansas City, and this is clearly a season of "seeing what they got". I don't see keeping or trading Bieber as a determining factor for the 24 season until there are some legitimate offensive contributors and that might not happen until after the break. That or they come out of the gate out performing expectations offensively.

Mott and others believe Bieber's value will be peaked at the deadline, but I don't think they'll get much for a SP that has hopefully rebounded and only has the 2nd half of the season remaining on his deal. He's likely not worth much on the market at this time due to his injuries and the appearance of declining skills. I think they're between a rock and a hard place with Bieber.