A Case of Class, Character, and Maturity

[The Human Q-Tip]

....Even with a couple of lethargic efforts from Lebron, he outplayed his matchup which was Paul Pierce. He also did a great job defensively on Pierce. Everything Pierce got was in transition or over Parker/Mo Williams on switch ups. But, ofcourse no one wants to talk about that....Lebron single handedly cannot win playoff series against teams like the Celtics, Magic and Lakers. Those team are too talented and actually play with a good system in place....Lebron did not screw us over. We couldn't stop the Celtic from scoring and that is a fact. That falls on more than just Lebron James....

If LeBron had never proclaimed himself as anything more than a great individual player, you'd have a better point. But in almost every interview with the guy I've ever heard -- excluding his post game interview -- he talks about his role as the leader of this team. And as the self-proclaimed leader of the team, a "lethargic" (I'd suggest "disinterested") effort has a ripple effect that goes well beyond him beating his guy on the matchup. I saw little or no fire from him from the bench, and no real efforts to inspire or lead his teammates even if he was less than 100% physically, for which I was willing to cut him some slack.

Maybe we would have lost anyway because it was a bad matchup and because of injury. But that still is no excuse for the team leader to play like he didn't care for significant periods of time. The result was as predicted -- the team basically followed its leader.

 

[Splitz]

Z deserved better than this

 

[Erbium]

.

 

[flamez]

I'm saying that Lebron's attitude, and body language was disgusting.

Lebron knew that the team would follow his lead. He knew that as he went, they went. He knew his coach was clueles. He had to have known that Shaq was garbage or that Jamison couldn't guard KG. He knew that Mo was suspect on D and couldn't handle playoff pressure....and what did he do....he quit. That is what's crazy Lebron knew that it wouldn't get done without him and he did nothing.

This team was built around Lebron. He got whatever he wanted and all of a sudden after game 3 that wasn't good enough? If Lebron played to half of his abilities we would have beat the Celtics because they aren't better than us. Not with Lebron.

I don't know about conspiracy, or hurt elbows, but I do know that the Lebron I rooted for seven years in a row stopped showing up after game three. I rooted for the CAVS over my hometown Bulls, now all I can do is pray Lebron doesn't end up there.

I'll tackle each issue that you presented.

You're saying Lebron's attitude and body language was disgusting. What about Jamison's body language and attitude when he was getting eaten alive by KG?? Why about Mo Williams? What about Shaq's? What about Delonte or Andy's?

You're relying on ONE PERSON to win and that is not going to cut it. It's the Cleveland Cavaliers not the Cleveland Lebron!!! We didn't win 61 games in the season with Lebron by himself on the court.

The argument of "team goes as Lebron goes" is horrendous. That is precisely why we lost and will continue to lose in the future with Lebron unless drastic changes are made. I've been saying it for a couple of days now, you can't rely on one player alone in the playoffs. Kobe and MJ have had bad games, but their teams stepped up and got it done (examples: game 7 vs. houston last year for Lakers and Game 7 vs. Pacers in 1998 for Bulls).

The part that I bolded needs to be ready slowly and VERY CAREFULLY. So, with a clueless coach, Garbage Shaq and Jamison, a horrible Mo Williams who can't play in the playoff atmosphere, Lebron is supposed to win a playoff series against the Celtics?? A team who executed flawlessly, a team who has championship experience? A team who has a very good coach and system?

To be honest, that may have been a reason Lebron played without alot of energy. Why the heck would you bust your ass year after year only to watch a clueless coach and garbage players around you crumble??

As far as Lebron did nothing and quit. He did play bad in a couple of games, but that doesn't mean he was the sole reason for the loss. The part that you mention which I bolded and just talked about is the BIGGEST reason we lost. Why can't you comprehend that?

As far as Lebron playing to half of his abilities and we would've won. That is just a fallacy. We lost by a combined 50 points in the two home losses (18 in game 2 and 32 in game 5). Lebron playing to his FULL abilities would NOT have changed that.

Remember last year vs. the Magic??? Lebron played to his full ability and we still lost. Before you talk about Orlando being a better team and having better matchups against us, go back and observe the Celtics who we just lost to. It's the same story. They were the better team and had favorable matchups. KG over Jamison, Rondo over Mo/Delonte/AP, Ray Allen over AP/Mo/ Delonte. That is NO DIFFERENT than Lewis over Andy/Ben Wallace, Howard over Big Z, Hedo over Delonte. The Magic had a better bench than ours and so did the celtics. Last year it was Pietrus who killed us this year it was a combination of Big Baby, Tony Allen, and Rasheed Wallace.

But ofcourse it's all Lebron's fault. (sarcasm).

 

[BRInQ]

I'll tackle each issue that you presented.

You're saying Lebron's attitude and body language was disgusting. What about Jamison's body language and attitude when he was getting eaten alive by KG?? Why about Mo Williams? What about Shaq's? What about Delonte or Andy's?
You're relying on ONE PERSON to win and that is not going to cut it. It's the Cleveland Cavaliers not the Cleveland Lebron!!! We didn't win 61 games in the season with Lebron by himself on the court.

The argument of "team goes as Lebron goes" is horrendous. That is precisely why we lost and will continue to lose in the future with Lebron unless drastic changes are made. I've been saying it for a couple of days now, you can't rely on one player alone in the playoffs. Kobe and MJ have had bad games, but their teams stepped up and got it done (examples: game 7 vs. houston last year for Lakers and Game 7 vs. Pacers in 1998 for Bulls).

The part that I bolded needs to be ready slowly and VERY CAREFULLY. So, with a clueless coach, Garbage Shaq and Jamison, a horrible Mo Williams who can't play in the playoff atmosphere, Lebron is supposed to win a playoff series against the Celtics?? A team who executed flawlessly, a team who has championship experience? A team who has a very good coach and system?

To be honest, that may have been a reason Lebron played without alot of energy. Why the heck would you bust your ass year after year only to watch a clueless coach and garbage players around you crumble??

As far as Lebron did nothing and quit. He did play bad in a couple of games, but that doesn't mean he was the sole reason for the loss. The part that you mention which I bolded and just talked about is the BIGGEST reason we lost. Why can't you comprehend that?

As far as Lebron playing to half of his abilities and we would've won. That is just a fallacy. We lost by a combined 50 points in the two home losses (18 in game 2 and 32 in game 5). Lebron playing to his FULL abilities would NOT have changed that.

Remember last year vs. the Magic??? Lebron played to his full ability and we still lost. Before you talk about Orlando being a better team and having better matchups against us, go back and observe the Celtics who we just lost to. It's the same story. They were the better team and had favorable matchups. KG over Jamison, Rondo over Mo/Delonte/AP, Ray Allen over AP/Mo/ Delonte. That is NO DIFFERENT than Lewis over Andy/Ben Wallace, Howard over Big Z, Hedo over Delonte. The Magic had a better bench than ours and so did the celtics. Last year it was Pietrus who killed us this year it was a combination of Big Baby, Tony Allen, and Rasheed Wallace.

But ofcourse it's all Lebron's fault. (sarcasm).

We'll I guess we just disagree then.

1. Yes, I believe that if Lebron played to the full of his abilities we would've won.

2. Yes the rest of the players played like crap because a) number 1. didn't happen and b) they are role players or better yet reactionary players brought in to play off of the strengths of Lebron. Lebron didn't play to his strengths, therefore eliminating any chance of the role players being successful. They only players that might have had a chance of taking over were Mo and Jamison, but they're shoulders are no where near as big as Lebron's.

3. I believe we lost to Orlando because of Mike Brown's stubborness and lack of tact, not the matchups. There was only one matchp problem and Mike Brown multiplied it.

4. The Celtics were NOT the better team.

Comprehend That...NO SARCASM

 

[Zog]

1. Yes, I believe that if Lebron played to the full of his abilities we would've won.


4. The Celtics were NOT the better team.

1. Agreed

4. Disagreed. Celtics were the better team. Rondo was better than Mo (by far), RayRay was better than Parker and Delonte, LeBron was better than Pierce, KG was better than Antawn. Perksin and Shaq was basically a draw. Tony Allen played better than any of our bench players. Sheed made more of an impact than AV or JJ, or Z.

Yes, LeBron was good enough to overcome that if he played his A game every game. But he was injured to some extent and clearly not at his best.

We weren't beating Orlando playing like that whether LeBron brought us to the ECF or not.

 

[Chris]

4 of the best 5 players were Celtics.

Better team am confirmed.

 

[LBJ23MJ]

I'll tackle each issue that you presented.

You're saying Lebron's attitude and body language was disgusting. What about Jamison's body language and attitude when he was getting eaten alive by KG?? Why about Mo Williams? What about Shaq's? What about Delonte or Andy's?

You're relying on ONE PERSON to win and that is not going to cut it. It's the Cleveland Cavaliers not the Cleveland Lebron!!! We didn't win 61 games in the season with Lebron by himself on the court.

The argument of "team goes as Lebron goes" is horrendous. That is precisely why we lost and will continue to lose in the future with Lebron unless drastic changes are made. I've been saying it for a couple of days now, you can't rely on one player alone in the playoffs. Kobe and MJ have had bad games, but their teams stepped up and got it done (examples: game 7 vs. houston last year for Lakers and Game 7 vs. Pacers in 1998 for Bulls).

The part that I bolded needs to be ready slowly and VERY CAREFULLY. So, with a clueless coach, Garbage Shaq and Jamison, a horrible Mo Williams who can't play in the playoff atmosphere, Lebron is supposed to win a playoff series against the Celtics?? A team who executed flawlessly, a team who has championship experience? A team who has a very good coach and system?

To be honest, that may have been a reason Lebron played without alot of energy. Why the heck would you bust your ass year after year only to watch a clueless coach and garbage players around you crumble??

As far as Lebron did nothing and quit. He did play bad in a couple of games, but that doesn't mean he was the sole reason for the loss. The part that you mention which I bolded and just talked about is the BIGGEST reason we lost. Why can't you comprehend that?

As far as Lebron playing to half of his abilities and we would've won. That is just a fallacy. We lost by a combined 50 points in the two home losses (18 in game 2 and 32 in game 5). Lebron playing to his FULL abilities would NOT have changed that.

Remember last year vs. the Magic??? Lebron played to his full ability and we still lost. Before you talk about Orlando being a better team and having better matchups against us, go back and observe the Celtics who we just lost to. It's the same story. They were the better team and had favorable matchups. KG over Jamison, Rondo over Mo/Delonte/AP, Ray Allen over AP/Mo/ Delonte. That is NO DIFFERENT than Lewis over Andy/Ben Wallace, Howard over Big Z, Hedo over Delonte. The Magic had a better bench than ours and so did the celtics. Last year it was Pietrus who killed us this year it was a combination of Big Baby, Tony Allen, and Rasheed Wallace.

But ofcourse it's all Lebron's fault. (sarcasm).

flamez is pretty much one of the few people around here who doesn't let his emotions get in the way of his reasoning.

 

[LBJ23MJ]

The result was as predicted -- the team basically followed its leader.

Then the Cavs must have a bunch of weak-minded individuals then, which is a LOT more telling of their character than LeBron's.

These are grown-ass men, not children that need to be spoonfed and taught how to potty-train. They want a leader? They want to be "made" into better players?

They need to look in the mirror, and start right there.