Big 10 Is A Joke

[Cleveland56]

I am not going to make any more of fun of little Mike Hart...He might be a key addition a few years down the road for the Cleveland Gladiators.

 

[James]

Yeah but obviously the vastly superior all-mighty SEC should have had no problem with the puny weak Big 10. Especially when the game is practically a home game for the SEC team.

Also, as of right now, going into the NCG:

SEC:
6-2

Big 10:
3-4

So not only did the SEC have 9 teams in Bowl Games, they have been winning them with the exception of Arkansas who got dominated by Mizzou and UF who lost by 7. Of course the big name teams in the big won, PSU, UM and then i think Purdue...thats it though. To me the SEC has the most depth, and I dont think that is arguable, even Miss. St won there Bowl Game, a team who has been laughable at best over the last couple years, as well as Alabama. Kentucky beat FSU (although half the team was suspended, these guys are still FSU players) another team who is on the up swing. Auburn also beat Clemson who had one of the better seasons in the ACC. And then UGA came out and showed no mercy on the "undefeated" Rainbow Warriors.

These are middle of the road teams and they are doing well and not only getting to these Bowl Games but are winning Bowl Games, showing that in the regular season, there are not many easy games against in confrence opponents. I dont think you can say that about any other confrence, maybe the Pac-10 ill give a pass to, they have shown that some of the weaker teams can play tough in big games.

 

[_amon _ones]

FSU is on an upswing? They had 29 players suspended for that game, alone, and will probably lose players to the scandal they created for themselves.

I agree with most of what you said...although the Big 10 is better than the Pac 10...with the exception of Oregon and USC...other than that, the Pac 10 sucks.

 

[James]

FSU is on an upswing? They had 29 players suspended for that game, alone, and will probably lose players to the scandal they created for themselves.

I was talking about Kentucky who was on the upswing, I had to edit it once i re-read it because that obviously didnt make sense. FSU is still FSU and they get good players. Its not like the guys who went out there were scrub players by any means.

BUT with all that being said....i think there will be a bit of a drop off as far as the ammount of good teams next year, Arkansas is losing there 3 best players and will most likely go back to seller dwellers along with Ole Miss. Kentucky will have to replace a top 15 NFL pick in Woodson at QB. So I dont think the Confrence will be as deep as it has been these past couple years.

 

[_amon _ones]

I was talking about Kentucky who was on the upswing, I had to edit it once i re-read it because that obviously didnt make sense. FSU is still FSU and they get good players. Its not like the guys who went out there were scrub players by any means.

They get good players, but FSU hasn't been the same Seminole teams that we were used to...and they haven't been that way in a long time. They haven't been a factor in the national scene since 1999, when they were 12-0. They have at least 3 losses in every season since then, except 2000 when they were 11-2. And the ACC is nowhere near as good in a conference as the SEC, Big 10, Big 12, or even the Pac 10. It's closer to the Big East.

Kentucky is definitely on an upswing, although losing Woodson will hurt. As for the rest of the SEC, they will suffer the same dilemma as the other power conferences...decimated by rivalry games and scheduling cupcakes to open the season. Until any of these conferences change this practice, there will always be regionalized debate over which is better.

And, let's face it, these teams are built for the type of competition they face, as well as the conditions that they play in. Big 10 teams are built for running the ball and smashmouth defense...the types of football played in cold weather, whereas, in the South, they can go after the lean, fast players who thrive in the heat (this also gives them a distinct advantage in bowl season, as most bowls are in warm weather climates). This is why Purdue is consistantly decent, but never at the top of the Big 10...they run the spread, and it just isn't consistantly successful in the late October to November cold of the Big 10 schedule.

This is also a reason I think Michigan might have trouble running R-Rod's offense in the Big 10. It's a complete shift in style, and it's not a cold weather type of offense. Illinois was successful, this season, but the other teams will adjust, and Illinois will drop back to the middle of the pack under a Big 10 schedule.

 

[James]

Kentucky is definitely on an upswing, although losing Woodson will hurt. As for the rest of the SEC, they will suffer the same dilemma as the other power conferences...decimated by rivalry games and scheduling cupcakes to open the season. Until any of these conferences change this practice, there will always be regionalized debate over which is better.

The in confrence schedules make up for pretty weak out of confrence ones, LSU still played VT. Georgia still has to play GT every year, UF has to play FSU every year, USC still has to play Clemson every year. Vandy played Wake Forest this year and UT played Cal at Cal this year. Those are all pretty good non-confrence games...For a bunch of people that hate ND so much, it cracks me up that 4 different big 10 teams got there shot to beat them up this year.

I dont think its a regionalized debate, the SEC is the deepest confrence this year and has been the past couple, how is that a debate?

 

[_amon _ones]

The in confrence schedules make up for pretty weak out of confrence ones, LSU still played VT. Georgia still has to play GT every year, UF has to play FSU every year, USC still has to play Clemson every year. Vandy played Wake Forest this year and UT played Cal at Cal this year. Those are all pretty good non-confrence games...For a bunch of people that hate ND so much, it cracks me up that 4 different big 10 teams got there shot to beat them up this year.

I dont think its a regionalized debate, the SEC is the deepest confrence this year and has been the past couple, how is that a debate?

It's a regionalized debate because, if you ask someone in the Midwest who the best team in college football is, almost all will pick a Big 12 team. If you ask someone in the West, they will pick a PAC 10 team...upper Midwest, Big 10 team...the South, an SEC team. People are biased by what they see the most, which is regional games from the major conferences. It's also debatable because, outside of the bowl season, these team hardly ever face the same competition. LSU isn't playing a Big 10 schedule, Nebraska isn't playing a Pac 10 schedule, Stanford isn't playing an SEC schedule, and Illinois isn't facing the Big 12. These conferences are lucky if they face one common opponent. The only way that happens outside of bowl season is to schedule each other in non-conference play. There are usually 4 non-conference games. Schedule 1 team, on a rotation, from each of the other 3 power conferences. This leaves 1 game available for the outside rivalry...i.e. Michigan-ND or FSU-UF. This would at least give a better idea of which conference is stronger before bowl season. As of right now, everyone selects one non-conference team that is decent to play, but the rest, for all of these conferences, are cupcakes. App State, YSU, Loiusiana-Lafayette, Troy...these are all cupcakes...even if App State is the 3 time reigning subdivision champ.

The national media (mostly ESPN) happens to pick a conference every year and make a claim that it's the best. Last season, they chose the Big 10, and were proven wrong after Michigan and OSU were hammered in their bowl games. The year before, it was the Big 12 with Texas and Oklahoma. Before that, it was the Pac 10 with USC, Cal, and Oregon. It's pretty much on a rotation. This season, it happens to be the SEC. These are the same guys who kept saying that that South Carolina was a good team, while getting beaten week in and week out. Next season, it will probably go back to the Pac 10, with Oregon, USC, and the addition of ASU as the top teams. They do this to spur debate, and keep their ratings up.

As for ND, they should already be in the Big 10 (as they already play half a Big 10 schedule), but, want to keep their traditions intact (the Armed Forces games, or, in most years, guaranteed wins). The reality is they don't want to give any of their independent money to a conference. They want to keep their lucrative contracts and money to themselves.

 

[Style]

Also, as of right now, going into the NCG:

SEC:
6-2

Big 10:
3-4

...

To me the SEC has the most depth, and I dont think that is arguable

James, I believe almost everyone who's posted in this thread has said the SEC looks like the top conference this year. What they're arguing is that the Big Ten is not a joke. UM beating one of the better SEC teams in UF AT Florida and PSU beating A&M AT Texas goes a long way toward that argument.

Even the losses can all be defended. Illinois won what, 3 games last year, and had to play USC. MSU went against a team some thought would be playing for the national title and some thought had the best QB in BC, and lost by 3. Indiana is another cellar dweller who hung in there with Okie State. And Wisconsin was one completed pass in the closing seconds away from beating another SEC team in UT.

If OSU beats LSU, as you seem to think will happen, the Big Ten is one of the top 3 conferences, and I it's not even arguable.

 

[James]

Thats a fair statement, and i dont have anything to pick out of it or anything I disagree with, the point I was trying to make, that I think it speaks more to the confrence to see the Kentuckys, Miss St's and Alabama's not only getting to these games, but winning. Big names are big names and will always have the upper hand in recruiting and be able to rebuild much faster, Auburns, LSU's and UF's will all be loaded until the time I graduate out of school in 2010.

Of course if the Big 10 wins they will be one of the top 3. I just think from top to bottom, the SEC has a better year then any other confrence in the country.

If you recall how and why this thread was started, you better then anyone would rememeber why the title was so hostile.

 

[cavincali]

FSU is in the ACC. Before that they were either an independent or in the Dixie Conference, never the SEC.

Good call.

 

[Dungong]

As for ND, they should already be in the Big 10 (as they already play half a Big 10 schedule), but, want to keep their traditions intact (the Armed Forces games, or, in most years, guaranteed wins). The reality is they don't want to give any of their independent money to a conference. They want to keep their lucrative contracts and money to themselves.

Just let that whole Independent section into the Big 10. If ND keeps sucking, they're going to have to find a conference anyway, as NBC is being forced to give free commercials because they cant meet ratings promises, and their exclusive contract with ND is going to expire soon. But if the conference expands, youre probably going to have a title game, ask former BCS ranked #1 Mizzou about those.

 

[James]

James just wouldn't be happy if I didn't keep this thread going with Bucknuts articles:

Smartest Effing Coaches in the country…The SEC has to have the best players in the nation because they have to overcome some of the worst coaching. Really. In a league in which Phat Phil Fullmer is considered a savant, well…

Let’s take a look at the coaches that make up the Smartest Effing Coaches league:

Les “Is More” Miles: You want to talk smart? This guy smart-mouthed Jim Tressel when he was at Okie State, got mauled in the bowl game and still was hired at LSU! What then? He took over a national championship caliber squad and came close to losing five times (made it twice…). Did that humble a guy like Miles? No way. He simply parlayed that doing-Les-with-more season into playing Michigan off against LSU for more money. Now, that’s smart!

Nick Satan: A chronic under-achiever at Michigan State, this self-proclaimed Boy Wonder pulled a rabbit out of his hat at LSU then went on to ruin the Miami Dolphin franchise. He crawled from that wreckage by staking himself to the largest college football contract in the history of man, spinning the myth that Bear Bryant was the “last Nick Saban”. Did he banish the memory of even Gene Stallings or Little Shula in his first season? Not exactly. He went 6-6, lost to Mississippi State and Louisiana Monroe, dropped the sixth straight game to rival Auburn, reinstated a suspended player at halftime just to show who was boss and was obnoxious to fans and writers alike. Welcome home, Nick!

Steve Superior: Once he found that winning championships at Florida wasn’t challenge enough for his superior intellect, Steve went north to ruin a pro franchise before settling in at Columbia, SC to prove that he could run any college team and that Lou Holtz was probably a boob because Lou couldn’t. He has writers (well, if you could call Wilmer a writer) so fooled by his Old Ballcoach charm, that they kept voting the Cocks fourth or fifth in the nation despite the weekly losing and showing no evidence to support that vote - other than they were fourth or fifth best in the pre-eminent SEC. The biggest Cock of all (Spurrier, not Wilmer) then lost five straight games, proving – if nothing else – that they shouldn’t have been voted any higher than maybe sixth in the nation.

Dead Ed Orgeron: Ok, they did fire him. After he went 3-9 with the wins coming against traditional rivals Northwestern State, Louisiana Tech and Memphis

Houston’s Nutts: And cut off, there. Houston, we have a problem. Yeah, they fired him too. This was a guy that hired a new offensive coordinator just to get his son at QB? Then they both left the next year! A topper? He had the best running back in the country (McFadden) but changed the offense to fit, oh…never mind. Anyway, a day after he “left” Arkansas, he took over Dead Ed’s spot at Ole Miss. A smart move?

Tommy Tupperware: With a team that has Top Ten talent, Tuberville sold his wares sparsely as he ended up 8-4, losing to South Florida and Mississippi State (!) early. Just to show what a great salesman he is, after an unqualified under-achieving year, he is the odds-on favorite to land a big raise because the trustees are nervous that he’s the best they can get (see Notre Dame trustees…).

Full “Of It” Fulmer: When you think of bringing up the rear, there’s Phil. This year, he got his rear in trouble early my getting massacred by 6-6 Cal (45-31), giving up 59 to Florida, and losing improbably to the new Boy Wonder at Alabama (6-6) 41-17. To pad his already bulging resume, Fulmer took this collection of Top Ten recruiting classes and motivated them to become the 71st best defensive team in the nation and the 53rd best on total offense.

And Tennessee was one of your SEC champs, folks! (After all, they are 9-4…)

So – I go along with the media herd instincts. Imagine how good these teams must be to overcome retched coaching like this!

http://www.bucknuts.com/news/story.php?article=2387

Lets revisit this post, looks like Les coached the better the game. I must say, it was classic seeing Kirk almost crying last night "people now think C-USA is better then the big 10."

osu was set up this year more so then last year, they had a weak schedule compared to LSU, LSU played the last couple games with many good players hurt, including a top 5 pick. Once they got healthy, they played well and won. The SEC IS the superior confrence in the land, and there is little to no debate about it.

 

[James]

James just wouldn't be happy if I didn't keep this thread going with Bucknuts articles:

Smartest Effing Coaches in the country…The SEC has to have the best players in the nation because they have to overcome some of the worst coaching. Really. In a league in which Phat Phil Fullmer is considered a savant, well…

Let’s take a look at the coaches that make up the Smartest Effing Coaches league:

Les “Is More” Miles: You want to talk smart? This guy smart-mouthed Jim Tressel when he was at Okie State, got mauled in the bowl game and still was hired at LSU! What then? He took over a national championship caliber squad and came close to losing five times (made it twice…). Did that humble a guy like Miles? No way. He simply parlayed that doing-Les-with-more season into playing Michigan off against LSU for more money. Now, that’s smart!

Nick Satan: A chronic under-achiever at Michigan State, this self-proclaimed Boy Wonder pulled a rabbit out of his hat at LSU then went on to ruin the Miami Dolphin franchise. He crawled from that wreckage by staking himself to the largest college football contract in the history of man, spinning the myth that Bear Bryant was the “last Nick Saban”. Did he banish the memory of even Gene Stallings or Little Shula in his first season? Not exactly. He went 6-6, lost to Mississippi State and Louisiana Monroe, dropped the sixth straight game to rival Auburn, reinstated a suspended player at halftime just to show who was boss and was obnoxious to fans and writers alike. Welcome home, Nick!

Steve Superior: Once he found that winning championships at Florida wasn’t challenge enough for his superior intellect, Steve went north to ruin a pro franchise before settling in at Columbia, SC to prove that he could run any college team and that Lou Holtz was probably a boob because Lou couldn’t. He has writers (well, if you could call Wilmer a writer) so fooled by his Old Ballcoach charm, that they kept voting the Cocks fourth or fifth in the nation despite the weekly losing and showing no evidence to support that vote - other than they were fourth or fifth best in the pre-eminent SEC. The biggest Cock of all (Spurrier, not Wilmer) then lost five straight games, proving – if nothing else – that they shouldn’t have been voted any higher than maybe sixth in the nation.

Dead Ed Orgeron: Ok, they did fire him. After he went 3-9 with the wins coming against traditional rivals Northwestern State, Louisiana Tech and Memphis

Houston’s Nutts: And cut off, there. Houston, we have a problem. Yeah, they fired him too. This was a guy that hired a new offensive coordinator just to get his son at QB? Then they both left the next year! A topper? He had the best running back in the country (McFadden) but changed the offense to fit, oh…never mind. Anyway, a day after he “left” Arkansas, he took over Dead Ed’s spot at Ole Miss. A smart move?

Tommy Tupperware: With a team that has Top Ten talent, Tuberville sold his wares sparsely as he ended up 8-4, losing to South Florida and Mississippi State (!) early. Just to show what a great salesman he is, after an unqualified under-achieving year, he is the odds-on favorite to land a big raise because the trustees are nervous that he’s the best they can get (see Notre Dame trustees…).

Full “Of It” Fulmer: When you think of bringing up the rear, there’s Phil. This year, he got his rear in trouble early my getting massacred by 6-6 Cal (45-31), giving up 59 to Florida, and losing improbably to the new Boy Wonder at Alabama (6-6) 41-17. To pad his already bulging resume, Fulmer took this collection of Top Ten recruiting classes and motivated them to become the 71st best defensive team in the nation and the 53rd best on total offense.

And Tennessee was one of your SEC champs, folks! (After all, they are 9-4…)

So – I go along with the media herd instincts. Imagine how good these teams must be to overcome retched coaching like this!

http://www.bucknuts.com/news/story.php?article=2387

Lets revisit this post, looks like Les coached the better the game. I must say, it was classic seeing Kirk almost crying last night "people now think C-USA is better then the big 10."

osu was set up this year more so then last year, they had a weak schedule compared to LSU, LSU played the last couple games with many good players hurt, including a top 5 pick. Once they got healthy, they played well and won. The SEC IS the superior confrence in the land, and there is little to no debate about it.

 

[crazedcav333]

I think that can be argued now with a lot of success. Chris Wells did put the "Fastest conference in the country" thing to rest pretty quickly.

LSU out played us - not out ran us.

 

[James]

Yes, Chris Wells did, BUT there are how many guys on a football team?? He is only 1 guy, and one of the only who showed up last night.
LSU got the outright title, after some of that debate we were hearing about.


Final Polls:

LSU
UGA
USC
Mizzou
OSU

SEC ends with 5 teams in the top 15.

SEC is one/two in the final polls. And guess what, ill let you in on a little secret...LSU wasnt even the best SEC team...UGA would SMOKE LSU.

"the Big ten is being perceived somewhere between the Mac and Conference USA"
-Kirk Heirbstreit