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Brian Windhorst updated podcast 5/19/10 (post #355)

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Old Thread Here - Ben

Windy was arguing:
1. Against the likelihood of Iguodala coming to town (under 50% likely). Philly approached Cleveland first, so the offer is Ferry's to reject
2. The Wizards and Cavs don't trust each other and argued that Houston is likely needed to facilitate a S&T, and therefore wanting some sort of compensation for it
3. The Pacers are asking for waaaay too much in every trade offer (Brandon Rush for an unprotected 1st)
4. Amare is really unlikely due to his character

But the most interesting note was that he expects a trade to happen sooner (as in the next week or so), rather than later (the deadline), in order to allow enough time for the new guys to settle in.

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2010/02/talk_cavaliers_with_brian_wind_10.html
 
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Re: Official Windy podcast thread (updated on 2/3 - page 9 - post #276)

He also says that we need a big back if we trade Z. Umm, hello. Dalembert.

He talks about the Cavs not trusting the Wiz. I don't see why you can't trust them. Maybe in terms of buying Z out? I mean, you say you're trading player X and Y (or whatever) for Jamison. What are Wiz going to do except say no? And, isn't there a period of time where a player can't be traded after being acquired? He talks about the Rockets trading TMAC for Jamison and Butler, and then trading Jamison to us -- but I don't think that's possible that soon. Unless he's talking about a 3-way trade.

Someone else may have responded, but by "not trusting the Wizards," clearly Windy is alluding to the Cavs' concern that the Wizards might not buy out Z, presumably out of spite. Obviously, it would make no sense financially and otherwise for the Wizards not to buy out Z, but Ernie Grunfeld is revealing himself to be not only a poor GM but also a very petty person...His pettiness would actually hurt his team...

It's really rather silly that we need to launder Jamison through Houston in a 3 way trade just to get him. I mean, we beat Washington a few times in the first round of the playoffs several years ago. The Cavs were the better team. Your current team has a .300 winning percentage. Get over it, get a better team together, and we'll see what you've got in a couple of years. Or, if you prefer to hold on to Jamison, it'll be 3-4 years, since he's just going to slow down the rebuilding process.

I guess using Houston as the intermediary means we can rely on Houston to buy out Z even though they are the shortest team in the league and are fighting for a playoff spot? That point wasn't directly addressed by Windy.

My overall take on the podcast is that the Cavs are feeling pretty confident right now, and feel they match up well with their main competition. However, they have two somewhat competing concerns.

One concern for the Cavs is that they have Z for the playoffs. There is a sentimental reason, of course, but far more importantly is the capacity he gives the team to match up against the Lakers, particularly Gasol.

The other concern is to have another go-to scorer, so that the team isn't so reliant on Mo. Shaq is coming on nicely, but it's risky playing him during crunch time due to his poor foul shooting.

(The Cavs third concern is that they retain as many of their young players and assets as possible. For the Cavs, that goes without saying.)

Now, ideally they'd like to address both of these concerns by trading Z for the go-to scorer (clearly Windy prefers Jamison) and getting back Z in a buy out. Problem with this is the guy they want and who really ought to be available (Jamison) happens to play for a dysfunctional, petty team.

Windy also stressed the Cavs are really only interested in a significant player, someone they can rely on in big games. They aren't interested in doing some bargain shopping to bring in a shooting PF who isn't going to be a guy they can rely on in the playoffs.

Another point worth mentioning. Windy reported that Jamison and his agent are, behind the scenes, really pushing the Wizards to trade him. Jamison's comments to the press to the contrary are just a smokescreen, according to Windy.

Now if Grunfled has even a scintilla of class he will try to accommodate him.

Windy clearly isn't keen on the Iggy idea. It's somewhat hard knowing how much this is his opinion, and how much of it reflects the impression he is getting from the Cavs. But a Z for Iggy trade would almost certainly mean a return of Z to Cleveland, since as W&G has mentioned, Ferry enjoys a good relationship with the Sixers' FO. Something to keep in mind.
 
Re: Brian Windhorst trade podcast 2/3/10

I imagine that the Jamison deal is our first choice, and if it's not done by next week, then Ferry is just going to take the philly deal.

Not a bad back up deal. I imagine the Wizards deal doesn't include Hickson and the Iggy deal does.
 
Re: Brian Windhorst trade podcast 2/3/10

Windy was arguing:
1. Against the likelihood of Iguodala coming to town (under 50% likely). Philly approached Cleveland first, so the offer is Ferry's to reject
2. The Wizards and Cavs don't trust each other and argued that Houston is likely needed to facilitate a S&T, and therefore wanting some sort of compensation for it

I find these two points very interesting. To me, they suggest the Cavs (and I'm assuming LeBron) are seriously valuing Jamison over Igoudala. I find that odd myself. Jamison is a much riskier commodity, IMHO, and offers you so much less than AI2 who is much younger, is an efficient slasher, and can solidify our backcourt issues (Mo/Iggy/LBJ) for the forseeable future. Jamison, on the other hand, seems like he would help us with a title this year and perhaps that's all.

Once the NBA makes it's inevitable power shift from L.A. with the decline of Kobe and the more likely than not reemergence of Miami (two max contracts including Wade), I can't see how a 34-35 year old Antawn Jamison is going to continue to compete at a championship level.

To me the choice is clear.
 
Re: Brian Windhorst trade podcast 2/3/10

I imagine that the Jamison deal is our first choice, and if it's not done by next week, then Ferry is just going to take the philly deal.

Not a bad back up deal. I imagine the Wizards deal doesn't include Hickson and the Iggy deal does.

Or........... we don't do or trade anything which I think has about a 75% chance of happening. Total RCF melt down, cats and dogs living together, mass hysteria.
 
Re: Brian Windhorst trade podcast 2/3/10

I find these two points very interesting. To me, they suggest the Cavs (and I'm assuming LeBron) are seriously valuing Jamison over Igoudala. I find that odd myself. Jamison is a much riskier commodity, IMHO, and offers you so much less than AI2 who is much younger, is an efficient slasher, and can solidify our backcourt issues (Mo/Iggy/LBJ) for the forseeable future. Jamison, on the other hand, seems like he would help us with a title this year and perhaps that's all.

Once the NBA makes it's inevitable power shift from L.A. with the decline of Kobe and the more likely than not reemergence of Miami (two max contracts including Wade), I can't see how a 34-35 year old Antawn Jamison is going to continue to compete at a championship level.

To me the choice is clear.

What exactly are you willing to give up though. I don't think you get him for just Z. We are talking JJ too? That is 2 bigs for 1 swingman and leaves us thin up front even if Z is bought out. Philly would probably like some shooters and a replacement 3, so maybe they would want something like Moon and Boobie instead of JJ.
 
Re: Brian Windhorst trade podcast 2/3/10

What exactly are you willing to give up though. I don't think you get him for just Z. We are talking JJ too? That is 2 bigs for 1 swingman and leaves us thin up front even if Z is bought out. Philly would probably like some shooters and a replacement 3, so maybe they would want something like Moon and Boobie instead of JJ.

Well you are right, Iguodala is certainly more expensive; however, the most I'd be willing to give up is JJ Hickson and either Parker or Moon (preferrably Moon, because of the similar skill set). In exchange, we'd get back AI2/Dalembert (a big-man) with Z returning in 30 days. If Delonte West had to be included, I might balk at the trade because we'd really have no backup combo guard who could handle the point as well as D. West.

I just feel as though we must plan out for the future, as well as this year. IMO, a straight Jamison for Z+1st trade makes us the favorites this year without question. Yet, the following years are very uncertain afterwards. Who is to say Jamison can continue to produce as a 34 year old cornerman who's currently playing heavy minutes and taking nearly 18 shots a game to get his 20 pts. AI2 on the other hand completely solidifies our perimeter lineup. I mean, can anyone think of a better perimeter than Mo/AI2/LeBron? Not to sound homerish, but that might be the best 1-3 grouping in the NBA.

So yeah, I go with the long-term investment in Iguodala. My primary reasons being that AI2 has plenty of years left in his tank, his contract is slightly overpriced but not horrendous, and he complements our existing core of Mo/LBJ/AV who will all be here for years (hopefully). Jamison, while being a great guy and a superb basketball player, is most certainly entering his twilight years. That's not building for the future at all in my book...

Lastly, I think it's important to consider the fact that Cleveland is not a desirable locale for top NBA players either in free agency or otherwise. Guys like Andre Iguodala don't get traded everyday, and this might be a once in a career (LBJ's career as a Cav) opportunity for the Cavaliers to improve their roster to such a dominant level. Imagine Iggy on the Cavs. Can anyone really say it'd be LeBron and 4 other role players? Not a chance.

Just my two cents though, so take it for what it's worth. Give me AI2, then Jamison, then Murphy. Amare over them all, but only if he agreed to an extension as part of the trade -- but that's neither here nor there.
 
Re: Official Windy podcast thread (updated on 2/3 - page 9 - post #276)

Here's another aspect about not trusting Washington. Jamison is No. 8 in the league at minutes played, averaging 38.9 minutes a game, and 40.4 minutes a game in January and February.

Do you get the feeling that they are trying to run him into the ground before they trade him as another aspect of spiting the Cavs? I would think that they would be trying to build for the future a bit by playing McGee or Blatche a bit more, and by tanking the season for a better draft position.
 
Re: Official Windy podcast thread (updated on 2/3 - page 9 - post #276)

Here's another aspect about not trusting Washington. Jamison is No. 8 in the league at minutes played, averaging 38.9 minutes a game, and 40.4 minutes a game in January and February.

Do you get the feeling that they are trying to run him into the ground before they trade him as another aspect of spiting the Cavs? I would think that they would be trying to build for the future a bit by playing McGee or Blatche a bit more, and by tanking the season for a better draft position.

I think Flip is just desperate to get a win every once and a while, and if he thinks that playing Jamison 46 minutes is the best way to do this, that's what he does. I don't think they are so devious that they want to trade Jamison to the Cavs just to see him break down. Butler and (usually) Haywood are getting heavy minutes too.
 
Re: Brian Windhorst trade podcast 2/3/10

what kinda of minutes would Jamison realistically play here? Especially after Z came back.

there's not a lot of minutes to go around with Z, Shaq and Andy. So Jamison would be our 4th big. Followed by Powe and Hickson.

Just sayin
 
Re: Brian Windhorst trade podcast 2/3/10

w&g why would we value jamison, who is older and has years left remaining on his deal, over iguodala, who is younger and has years left remaining on his deal, especially when we have seen (as you pointed out) just how valuable he could be with this team? as posters have said earlier, having cap flexibility does not seem to comport with getting jamison or, even more so, getting jackson earlier in the season.
 
Re: Brian Windhorst trade podcast 2/3/10

Just a guess: The Cavs also want to wait as long as possible to see how Powe's rehab is coming along. If he's looking close to 100 percent (whatever that looks like after two knee operations) then the prospect of losing Hickson and/or Z becomes much easier to accept. I'm thinking the team is trying to balance doing a trade sooner rather than later against getting a read on the return of Powe. Beause that's basically a mid-season trade at this point. And if Powe is anything close to what he was last year, he can easily replace JJ.
 
Re: Brian Windhorst trade podcast 2/3/10

what kinda of minutes would Jamison realistically play here? Especially after Z came back.

there's not a lot of minutes to go around with Z, Shaq and Andy. So Jamison would be our 4th big. Followed by Powe and Hickson.

Just sayin

That's the reason why I think we upgrade our team more if we bring in a replacement wing than a replacement big. Bringing in more of a scoring 4 may will diminish Andy's role and we may give back as many points as we add in scoring.

Bringing in Iggy who plays great D and scores is definitely an upgrade on each side of the ball over Parker's 30 minutes a night.
 
Re: Brian Windhorst trade podcast 2/3/10

what kinda of minutes would Jamison realistically play here? Especially after Z came back.

there's not a lot of minutes to go around with Z, Shaq and Andy. So Jamison would be our 4th big. Followed by Powe and Hickson.

Just sayin

If you don't think Jamison wouldl find playing time, think again...
 

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