Browns stadium thread: To dome or not to dome

[buzzdog]

Best option seems to be locate a new retractable dome somewhere, anywhere, in the immediate outskirts of downtown Cleveland... probably involving a land swap with the Brook Park site.

Next best option is to build in Brook Park. Definitely a dome, but who cares if it's retractable in Brook Park since there is nothing to look at but planes taking off and landing. Maybe some enhanced oversized skylights to give it an outside feel when desired.

Worst option is throw good money after bad money and spend a billion to update the POS on the lake. To me this should be a non-starter.

There should be a way to achieve option 1 but there needs to be a unified will to find a way.

 

[-Akronite-]

Garfield could have been a great President.

All those post-Civil War period presidents look the same and are a blur, but Garfield had the most promise.

He was a smooth operator and got on well with Congress.

His first project was to root out entrenched corruption in the Civil Service.

He also took aim at crooks at Congress and advanced civil rights.

A true war hero too.

He would have been the best of that lot but for his doctor's dirty fucking fingers.

*getting in a Jules Verne era time machine to get those dirty fingers in Johnson instead*

 

[Lee]

Fun fact: he was named after an orange cartoon cat who loves lasagna.

He was named after Heathcliff?

 

[prf100]

He was named after Heathcliff?

Always felt bad for Heathcliff Slocumb. Who names their kid after a second rate cartoon cat?

 

[Huber.]

Isn't their a literal President buried in that cemetery?

You're thinking of Grover Cleveland. The old Indians manger

 

[aldamon]

I'm in full support of the dome outside of the downtown core, because renovating two locations with huge benefits is win-win (also would love to fly to some games with no weather risk), but I understand the confusion and outrage theater. The league spins these stadiums as economic engines for downtowns (even though its total BS for all of 10 days a year and everyone is roasting their own food and drinking their own booze in tailgates) so if cities don't fight, they should call BS on the whole system. They're either tremendous value for cities or they're not and teams can't flip the script when it's convenient. If it's just about cultural identity, I don't know how to value that. Also, is the live sporting product really driving the league now? How much revenue does a stadium generate vs gambling, TV rights, sponsorships, and merch? At least Cleveland has the Guards and Cavs to smooth things out. That's a huge chunk of the calendar with live sporting indoors or during better weather. NBA/MLB/MiLB are much better values for downtown cores.

 

[2 For The Brew]

I'm in full support of the dome outside of the downtown core, because renovating two locations with huge benefits is win-win (also would love to fly to some games with no weather risk), but I understand the confusion and outrage theater. The league spins these stadiums as economic engines for downtowns (even though its total BS for all of 10 days a year and everyone is roasting their own food and drinking their own booze in tailgates) so if cities don't fight, they should call BS on the whole system. They're either tremendous value for cities or they're not and teams can't flip the script when it's convenient. If it's just about cultural identity, I don't know how to value that. Also, is the live sporting product really driving the league now? How much revenue does a stadium generate vs gambling, TV rights, sponsorships, and merch? At least Cleveland has the Guards and Cavs to smooth things out. That's a huge chunk of the calendar with live sporting indoors or during better weather. NBA/MLB/MiLB are much better values for downtown cores.

There’s no way the City of Cleveland and the nearby businesses would bring in enough revenue in 8-10 home games a year to come close to the cost of a football stadium. It’s a prestige / cultural asset, not an “economic engine”. NEO has a strong affinity for the Browns but the cost of a seat per game for a new stadium is about $150 if the construction cost is $1B. Tailgates don’t do shit for revenue.

The smart move would be to make a show of competing with the burbs for a new football stadium but allow Brook Park or some other place win the bid. Cleveland has better uses for their limited money. If the financial burden falls on the county or state and Cleveland’s contribution is minimal then it makes sense to push for the stadium if there’s a logical location for it.

 

[B Mac]

I'm in full support of the dome outside of the downtown core, because renovating two locations with huge benefits is win-win (also would love to fly to some games with no weather risk), but I understand the confusion and outrage theater. The league spins these stadiums as economic engines for downtowns (even though its total BS for all of 10 days a year and everyone is roasting their own food and drinking their own booze in tailgates) so if cities don't fight, they should call BS on the whole system. They're either tremendous value for cities or they're not and teams can't flip the script when it's convenient. If it's just about cultural identity, I don't know how to value that. Also, is the live sporting product really driving the league now? How much revenue does a stadium generate vs gambling, TV rights, sponsorships, and merch? At least Cleveland has the Guards and Cavs to smooth things out. That's a huge chunk of the calendar with live sporting indoors or during better weather. NBA/MLB/MiLB are much better values for downtown cores.

10 days a year for Browns games. Lucas Oil hosts 200 events per year though, along with weekly paid stadium tours, and various other things that pop up. That would certainly be the blueprint that Haslem would try to follow.

Most of those 200 events would be smaller scale, but 200 certainly would blow what Browns stadium is hosting out of the water.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Again, I'm really skeptical that you truly get 200 extra events that otherwise would not be in the city. The reality is that adding a dome would take away a lot of events that would otherwise go to venues we already have, and there really isn't any benefit to having an event at a new Browns Dome rather than at, say Rocket Mortgage. The "extra" events would be only those that aren't suitable for any other venue in the city, and I'm skeptical there are significant numbers of those.

 

[2 For The Brew]

Again, I'm really skeptical that you truly get 200 extra events that otherwise would not be in the city. The reality is that adding a dome would take away a lot of events that would otherwise go to venues we already have. The "extra" events would be those that aren't suitable for any other venue in the city, and I'm skeptical there are significant numbers of those.

Get Travis Kelce to talk his girlfriend into a bunch of concerts and tack on a $200 a ticket facility fee. Her fans will pay it.

 

[CBBI]

Best option seems to be locate a new retractable dome somewhere, anywhere, in the immediate outskirts of downtown Cleveland... probably involving a land swap with the Brook Park site.

Next best option is to build in Brook Park. Definitely a dome, but who cares if it's retractable in Brook Park since there is nothing to look at but planes taking off and landing. Maybe some enhanced oversized skylights to give it an outside feel when desired.

Worst option is throw good money after bad money and spend a billion to update the POS on the lake. To me this should be a non-starter.

There should be a way to achieve option 1 but there needs to be a unified will to find a way.

Spoiler: it will not be a retractable roof.

 

[Selby]

Again, I'm really skeptical that you truly get 200 extra events that otherwise would not be in the city. The reality is that adding a dome would take away a lot of events that would otherwise go to venues we already have, and there really isn't any benefit to having an event at a new Browns Dome rather than at, say Rocket Mortgage. The "extra" events would be only those that aren't suitable for any other venue in the city, and I'm skeptical there are significant numbers of those.

Agree with all of this. The are only so many music acts that can sell out an NFL stadium in a city the size of Cleveland, and many of them seem to skip Cleveland in favor of Detroit or Pittsburgh. A new state of the art dome could perhaps allow us to steal a few acts from those markets, but we are talking maybe a handful of concerts a year. The dome could allow Cleveland to host men's basketball Final Four games or something along those lines, but like you said that would be every few years at most.

A dome would be nice to have because it at least gives us that flexibility, but I don't think we are going to see 50 events take place there a year, let alone 200.

 

[Huber.]

Spoiler: it will not be a retractable roof.

Bubble domes are the most economical option. Something like the Metrodome would be perfect for the Browns. The mlb team could play there in April and early May

 

[inliner311]

Agree with all of this. The are only so many music acts that can sell out an NFL stadium in a city the size of Cleveland, and many of them seem to skip Cleveland in favor of Detroit or Pittsburgh. A new state of the art dome could perhaps allow us to steal a few acts from those markets, but we are talking maybe a handful of concerts a year. The dome could allow Cleveland to host men's basketball Final Four games or something along those lines, but like you said that would be every few years at most.

A dome would be nice to have because it at least gives us that flexibility, but I don't think we are going to see 50 events take place there a year, let alone 200.

While I agree that 200 events a year would be real hard for a new dome. I do think if they design for it to be flexible to create different configurations for different concert sizes, that it will take away from the Q and CSU convection center. That what the City of Cleveland should be concern about if it goes to brookpark. Also I bet there would be a smaller venue to take away from places like the Agora, House of Blue, etc if they are making a entertainment complex in Brookpark.

I'm sure there will be a lot of emphasis to the new dome to have a lot of different configurations and allow for only part of the dome to be open for smaller events.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

While I agree that 200 events a year would be real hard for a new dome. I do think if they design for it to be flexible to create different configurations for different concert sizes, that it will take away from the Q and CSU convection center. That what the City of Cleveland should be concern about if it goes to brookpark. Also I bet there would be a smaller venue to take away from places like the Agora, House of Blue, etc if they are making a entertainment complex in Brookpark.

I'm sure there will be a lot of emphasis to the new dome to have a lot of different configurations and allow for only part of the dome to be open for smaller events.

Personally, I don't care where those events are held because in most cases, it's just pulling discretionary consumer spending from one location to another. No team, people will just spend more money at restaurants or other entertainment elsewhere. Not sure the net gain in the Northeast Ohio region overall is significant.

If Haslam wants to spend his own money, great. If not, I'd vote against any levy.