Cedi Osman Goodbye & Good Luck

[greenlaker]

Thought I'd repost this in the Cedi thread and elaborate.

The Cavs have played close to 1300 minutes so far, and Cedi has been on the floor for 800.

• In the 500 minutes without Cedi, the Cavs are playing close to break-even basketball. Team +/- is only -0.8 per 100 possessions. That team would be expected to win about half their games.
• In the 800 minutes with Cedi, the Cavs are atrocious. Team +/- is -14.8 per 100 possessions,

Cedi has the worst +/- on the team and almost all of the pain is on the defensive side. 11.5 out of the 14.8 come on the defensive end.

Opponents have an ORTG = 124 when Cedi plays defense, which is just about the same as saying opponents can score at will when Cedi is in the game. The opponents shoot 8%(!) better, rebound 3% better, and get more assists when Cedi comes in.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/osmande01/on-off/2019

Not sure what is going on because we didn't see this last year.

The +/- does not really say much about individual players. You would get similar stats with other players. Cedi might be at the worst end, but that is a little bit of luck(somebody has to have the worst stat, depends on who you are with on the court) and a little bit because he is playing worse than others lately. But generally, the stat would rather point to a coaching problem that can't make correct use of certain line-ups and certain player combinations.

 

[Cavatt]

The +/- does not really say much about individual players. You would get similar stats with other players. Cedi might be at the worst end, but that is a little bit of luck(somebody has to have the worst stat, depends on who you are with on the court) and a little bit because he is playing worse than others lately. But generally, the stat would rather point to a coaching problem that can't make correct use of certain line-ups and certain player combinations.

Who is playing more minutes than he is? They are losing a lot.

 

[TitleTown]

Who is playing more minutes than he is? They are losing a lot.

Exactly. I just don't see how the +/- is telling us anything right now...besides the obvious. We suck as a team.

 

[Cavatt]

Exactly. I just don't see how the +/- is telling us anything right now...besides the obvious. We suck as a team.

Also, I read today that the bench has been pretty good 7th in the league in scoring. That should make a lot of the starters look bad I think. The bench has come back a few times when the Starting unit has been terrible several times digging a hole immediately. His + - could easily have something to do with that. I think he is decent on the perimeter, but it does seem like he gets pushed around in the paint.

 

[TitleTown]

Also, I read today that the bench has been pretty good 7th in the league in scoring. That should make a lot of the starters look bad I think. The bench has come back a few times when the Starting unit has been terrible several times digging a hole immediately. His + - could easily have something to do with that. I think he is decent on the perimeter, but it does seem like he gets pushed around in the paint.

He should be playing the 2 instead of Hood, out on the wing with Sexton. Sadly, we have nothing resembling a useful set of player rotations that set these guys up for success. Hopefully, after the trade deadline, we'll start piecing an actual team together with rotations that make sense.

 

[tonyn]

Crazy fan theory incoming.

Cedi worked out with the elite of the elite of the nba this summer.
All the players he trained with displayed skills they have honed for years and did not have at cedis age.

So now cedi is trying to implement all these advanced moves and tactics into his game but right now it looks bad because he hasnt become adept at them yet.
Then at some point in the future cedi begins to hone and master said skills and they become his "base" like in MMA where a fighter may have a wrestling base or a judo base. Cedi has a lebron/kwahi/durant base and he can grow from there as a player.

That's my theory hope anyway. That cedi learned from these modern nba gods and is trying to incorporate their advanced techniques into the core of his skill set and he is looking rough because the technique are so advanced it takes time to utilize them properly. I hope also that at some point he does gain a form of mastery of them and his game begins to trancendt

 

[inliner311]

Crazy fan theory incoming.

Cedi worked out with the elite of the elite of the nba this summer.
All the players he trained with displayed skills they have honed for years and did not have at cedis age.

So now cedi is trying to implement all these advanced moves and tactics into his game but right now it looks bad because he hasnt become adept at them yet.
Then at some point in the future cedi begins to hone and master said skills and they become his "base" like in MMA where a fighter may have a wrestling base or a judo base. Cedi has a lebron/kwahi/durant base and he can grow from there as a player.

That's my theory hope anyway. That cedi learned from these modern nba gods and is trying to incorporate their advanced techniques into the core of his skill set and he is looking rough because the technique are so advanced it takes time to utilize them properly. I hope also that at some point he does gain a form of mastery of them and his game begins to trancendt

I think if he was able to play thru all this stuff last season when we had the vets to guide him then gone to train with all these all-star it would have helped him way more. I hope we bring someone to help him in with trade.

If I'm Koby and we get Melo back in a JR Smith trade, I would have a conversation with Melo and his people. Melo value is at an all time low and I'm not sure a contender would take him on. A couple months mentoring Cedi and being a good teammate might keep Melo in the league. It might do wonders to Cedi's game. Melo could pump up his value to get on a contender. Just make sure both parties are clear what they want and Melo can asked to be waived at anytime. Melo is apparently a very good teammate and players have actually always liked him.

 

[OptimusPrime]

I'm not worried about a mentor. Osman needs reps to learn from his mistakes and he needs to shoot a couple thousand jumpers every day.

 

[inliner311]

I'm not worried about a mentor. Osman needs reps to learn from his mistakes and he needs to shoot a couple thousand jumpers every day.

I agree he need to just work on his jumper. I basically consider him a rookie on that front and that usually takes time to get consistent on. It's just everything else Cedi needs guidance on with his game. I think a mentor just helps speed up the process before he gets too down on himself. We clearly don't have the coaches to help him along.

It's something where I don't think it hurts him to get someone to help him along. He clearly has the work ethic. I just don't know if he has the self awareness to figure it out alone.

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

Needs to play the 2 or the 1. Certainly not the 4 right now.

Because of his mediocre ball handling and as a result limited half court explosiveness, he needs to play in a position where he has physical advantage. A position where he can back down players, a position where he can make his spin move and not run into a brick wall, a position where he can comfortably shoot over players and finish over them at the rim.

Until he fixes his shot, he needs to have some ball handling duties and playmake more to have some what of a better impact and for him to playmake he needs screens run for him. He is being used as a stretch 4 and he screens way too much for players and it's just ineffective.

I really want to see him at the 1, but it's unrealistic with Delly now on the team(??). So playing him at the 2 where he can still have a size advantage is what I want to see. It';s not going to happen because Drew clear wants to play small ball.(or this organization)

He does look like he moves slower this season, especially in transition. I dunno, might be a lingering injury, or the fact that we are not competitive. Doesn't look like he has the same passion. Needs to find his place again.

 

[Joe Henderson]

Crazy fan theory incoming.

Cedi worked out with the elite of the elite of the nba this summer.
All the players he trained with displayed skills they have honed for years and did not have at cedis age.

So now cedi is trying to implement all these advanced moves and tactics into his game but right now it looks bad because he hasnt become adept at them yet.
Then at some point in the future cedi begins to hone and master said skills and they become his "base" like in MMA where a fighter may have a wrestling base or a judo base. Cedi has a lebron/kwahi/durant base and he can grow from there as a player.

That's my theory hope anyway. That cedi learned from these modern nba gods and is trying to incorporate their advanced techniques into the core of his skill set and he is looking rough because the technique are so advanced it takes time to utilize them properly. I hope also that at some point he does gain a form of mastery of them and his game begins to trancendt

Wait, the theory is that Cedi's baseline will be at Lebron/Durant/Kawhi level and he's gonna grow beyond that? So only expecting him to become the best ever, no pressure tho!

 

[CBBI]

He’s... not great.

 

[avs2000]

The Bullshit Whisperer reporting clips interested in cedi

 

[Lumthemad]

The Bullshit Whisperer reporting clips interested in cedi

Checking the salaries and the roster, this isn't a darn thing they could offer which would make me move Osman. I want something of equal value. A potential upside and I don't see that from that team.

I readily admit as a fan, I am frustrated by Osman and his inability to shoot the basketball. He also seems to make careless plays far too often. The more and more i see, the more and I i've come to the conclusion, we have ourselves a 2nd pick who's best role is as an energizer off the bench. Perhaps a Jerebko type with an inability to shoot the ball.

All of this being said, I think it IS too early to give up on him. He's got some skills I like seeing. He just needs to understand how to consistently use them. Some guys never unlock that logic.

 

[Cavatt]

Needs to play the 2 or the 1. Certainly not the 4 right now.

Because of his mediocre ball handling and as a result limited half court explosiveness, he needs to play in a position where he has physical advantage. A position where he can back down players, a position where he can make his spin move and not run into a brick wall, a position where he can comfortably shoot over players and finish over them at the rim.

Until he fixes his shot, he needs to have some ball handling duties and playmake more to have some what of a better impact and for him to playmake he needs screens run for him. He is being used as a stretch 4 and he screens way too much for players and it's just ineffective.

I really want to see him at the 1, but it's unrealistic with Delly now on the team(??). So playing him at the 2 where he can still have a size advantage is what I want to see. It';s not going to happen because Drew clear wants to play small ball.(or this organization)

He does look like he moves slower this season, especially in transition. I dunno, might be a lingering injury, or the fact that we are not competitive. Doesn't look like he has the same passion. Needs to find his place again.

He does not look explosive at all right now. I would not doubt the back is affecting him in the way he moves and his shot. Playing the 4 is probably not doing him any favors.

I agree on playing the 2. He is not bringing up the ball anymore, no one on the team is looking for him, he isn't cutting anymore. There are some problems. Maybe we should start Burks and Nwaba and have him play the 3 off the bench with Delly and Clarkson. He looked best when he was playing the 2 on offense, with Sexton as the 1, and Hood playing as a spot up 3. I don't think he is strong enough to play the 4 yet. The should be playing Nwaba and Blossomgame there until Love gets back instead.