Chandler Parsons

[Rich]

James Harden is probably the worst off the ball defender in the league. He gets caught looking at the ball and losing his man so many times throughout the course of the game you'd think he was a rookie.

 

[RchfldCavRaised]

You guys aren't really implying James Harden ATTEMPTS to play defense in here are you?

I don't know what led to that, but please stop.

 

[Urban]

Well James Harden is certainly capable of playing defense and showed it in his early years in OKC.

However, over the past 2-1/2 years he has gone from slightly above average to one of the league's worst

 

[Fuggles]

I don't know why people are talking about James Harden led teams getting out of the second round.

They have to get out of the first round first

 

[gourimoko]

Have you really watched him play? He doesn't even bother to attempt playing defense...

[video=youtube;wVYJULACcao]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVYJULACcao[/video]
[video=youtube;-J7XX0TGfsQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-J7XX0TGfsQ[/video]

I watch most of the games of most of the teams.. yeah, I watch him play.. Anyone can find youtube videos..

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/63TDVWnZ5K8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

These are just clips bro... doesn't mean anything. I'm talking about on average over a season, not just defensive lapses. Is he a "good" defender no, but is he decent? Decent meaning, is he right in the middle of the pack of all SGs? Yeah, I'd say so, but maybe we have different ideas of what middle of the pack means.

Maybe some of you cats think the average shooting guard is a lockdown defender? That the average shooting guard is able to learn various defensive systems and ably play help defense - all the while putting up insane offensive stats as the primary scoring option?

And if you don't think he is even average, then demonstrate it to me.. I'm all ears. What is average, and how is Harden below that average? I'm more than willing to have that conversation. Seriously, and with a completely open mind.

But the point of this post is that I think many folks under appreciate the difficulties of playing defense while scoring 25ppg. I don't know many players who can play both sides of the court like that; hell, LeBron can't anymore and he's not even 30. So maybe we have different standards, but to me, Harden isn't giving up a whole lot to his defender, statistically; and that's not counting what he gives back on the other end of the floor.

Off the top of my head, I'm fairly confident that Harden, in any matchup, is on average a net positive against any other back court player in the NBA. But maybe I'm wrong?

 

[AuxiliaryPie]

Ive seen an ELEVEN MINUTE long low-light reel of Harden sucking ass on defense ...11 minutes long

 

[gourimoko]

Ive seen an ELEVEN MINUTE long low-light reel of Harden sucking ass on defense ...11 minutes long

I've seen the exact same clip.. sucking ass on defense. I think we've all seen the exact same clip.. 11 minutes long.

What I'm trying to understand is how does Harden average out over the season, defensively.... Because when I think about the 150 or so guards in the NBA, I'm not too sure Harden is near the bottom on defense among that group. I'd say he's right around average.

It's really a simple, and fairly open ended question... I haven't looked at the data league wide, but I'm making some quick observations and saying yeah, for his position, amongst the league, he looks about average. How isn't that the case?

 

[AuxiliaryPie]

I dont believe hes that bad of a defender, but i dont watch him tbh. But thought the clip is funny

 

[gourimoko]

I dont believe hes that bad of a defender,

Agreed.. I don't either.. Fans have ridiculous expectations.

but i dont watch him tbh.

I've watch probably around 20 rockets games during the regular season, and all their postseason games. But no matter how many games someone says they've watched, it doesn't really make a difference to this argument.

But from what I can remember, I don't recall too many instances where Harden was getting torched. Generally he kept his man's shooting numbers either in line or slight below, all while grabbing a gang of defensive rebounds...

But thought the clip is funny

I did too, and then I thought.... How many teams would want James Harden? I know we would.

 

[Ohio]

Don't get me wrong, I think Harden is easily the best SG in the league. I'd want him on my team. And I WAS a huge fan of his game in OKC. Back when he did play defense. Back when he didn't flop around like a bitch. Back when he did actually play basketball and didn't just attempt to draw fouls every time he touched the ball.

I'm just saying, I'm not a fan of his game. Sure he's the best SG but I just don't care for the way he goes about playing anymore. I no longer enjoy watching him play.

As for the defense discussion, he hasn't played average defense since he was on OKC, like the clip you posted.

 

[Cavatt]

His d is terrible. I hate how lazy that move where you let the guy go by you and you try to poke it away. Dion did that when he showed up. That works in college, not the pros.

 

[gourimoko]

Don't get me wrong, I think Harden is easily the best SG in the league. I'd want him on my team. And I WAS a huge fan of his game in OKC. Back when he did play defense.

I agree, in OKC his defense much better. But he wasn't tasked with being the #1 option on the floor; hell, most nights he was #3! So there's a big difference in the expenditure of energy... not to make excuses.

Back when he didn't flop around like a bitch.

But you want your teammate doing that if it consistently draws fouls, and Harden consistently draws fouls.

Back when he did actually play basketball and didn't just attempt to draw fouls every time he touched the ball.

Getting to the line 10 times a game is helpful.. Think about it from the Rockets perspective... is he helping or hurting the team by drawing so many fouls? Dwayne Wade used get so many points from the charity stripe, almost every game... Imagine if Dion Waiters and Kyrie Irving got the same treatment?

I'm just saying, I'm not a fan of his game. Sure he's the best SG but I just don't care for the way he goes about playing anymore.

I agree with this... I hate how the rules are now, where every little thing is a foul.

I no longer enjoy watching him play.

I agree.

As for the defense discussion, he hasn't played average defense since he was on OKC, like the clip you posted.

Other than YouTube clips though, if we look at the season as a whole, he's doing everything you'd want your perimeter guards to be doing... Again, is he really worse than average?

 

[brandonbpm]

Um...so how about that Chandler Parsons, right?

 

[Cassity14]

I'd offer Parsons a lot of money if the Cavs drafted Embiid. He's the type of proven commodity I'd be willing to overpay for if it starts winning this team games. He's a lights out shooter, very good passer, and quality defender. He's young enough that there may still be some improvement there as well. He's the type of veteran who you pay a lot of money to in order to help your team turn it around.

Al Jefferson and Trevor Ariza are examples of guys who were thought to be overpaid when they were acquired yet turned out to be very important moves in their respective organizations. There are other examples as well. I think Parsons could be that in Cleveland.

 

[Kyrieville]

I'd offer Parsons a lot of money if the Cavs drafted Embiid. He's the type of proven commodity I'd be willing to overpay for if it starts winning this team games. He's a lights out shooter, very good passer, and quality defender. He's young enough that there may still be some improvement there as well. He's the type of veteran who you pay a lot of money to in order to help your team turn it around.

Al Jefferson and Trevor Ariza are examples of guys who were thought to be overpaid when they were acquired yet turned out to be very important moves in their respective organizations. There are other examples as well. I think Parsons could be that in Cleveland.

Agreed. If LeBron turns us down. Go after Parsons immediately and hard. Offer him a lot of money and make Houston think twice about matching it.