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Did not see Garippolo in this..
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Cleveland Browns Quarterback Position
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Chris
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I can't tell if you agree with what I said or not, or if you're just adding to the discussion, because it seems you touch on both sides of the coin. But I'm fine with Kizer sitting a couple weeks; no more than that. Do I think starting him from day 1 is somehow going to hinder him if he's actually good? No, but he is very young. I'm not going to act like waiting a couple weeks is somehow the difference between him being successful and not being successful. He will probably struggle for a bit regardless, but by the end of the year you will see signs if he can be the future or not.
Wasting our time with Osweiler is a terrible idea, sooner we jettison him the better.
Matches
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To be honest my gut reaction is to disagree with you, but then I went down a 90 minute rabbit hole of figuring out just what happened to these guys. And the result was only very special quarterbacks who were held back significantly as rookies ended up being worth a damn.
Now the big question to me is, how many of the successful quarterbacks who started as rookies were truly good as rookies? It is obvious that Browns fans are impatient with quarterbacks, possibly with good cause since nearly all of the ones we've had have been terrible. But between the fan base's itchy trigger finger, and the front office having the draft capital to invest in a new rookie next year, and the general lack of weapons on offense, Kizer has very little margin for error.
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Chris
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Well, I'm glad you had the willpower to do the actual research because I didn't.
But I went over it in my head quickly and it just seems like this whole "The quarterback must sit until we have a Pro Bowl line, weapons, and defense!" logic is flawed. Let the guy get in and take his lumps. You do bring up another good point about how good were these guys in their first year anyway, and the truth is most were likely inconsistent and not that good. I do think you can see things that will tell you if Kizer can be the guy moving forward though, as long as he gets ample playing time. This is why I prefer he gets all 16 games, but if we have to sit him for one or two, fine...
Kbiz
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Additionally, using the fact that Osweiler "knows a lot more of the playbook" and yet still overthrows his receivers routinely just goes to show that Osweiler sucks that much more.
I am glad that after four years in the league, Osweiler knows how to call an audible. He should start polishing his trophy case.
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So the only reasoning for people to say Kizer needs to sit is that he tripped over an O-Lineman in practice and "you can just see it"?
Yeah, not buying it. He was making line calls, telling his RB who to pickup in blitz pickup. He may not have it all down 100% but jesus, he is worlds more talented than Brock.
The biggest thing for a rookie QB to have to be successful is a good O-Line, particularly up the middle. Kizer would have that. There is no basis for Kizer to sit other than antiquated thinking about not playing a rookie. As if he would somehow break if he makes a mistake.
Yeah, not buying it. He was making line calls, telling his RB who to pickup in blitz pickup. He may not have it all down 100% but jesus, he is worlds more talented than Brock.
The biggest thing for a rookie QB to have to be successful is a good O-Line, particularly up the middle. Kizer would have that. There is no basis for Kizer to sit other than antiquated thinking about not playing a rookie. As if he would somehow break if he makes a mistake.
AZ_
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You're definitely correct, after four years in the league Osweiler should obviously have more freedom to do that and would in a regular season game scenario.
But what annoys me is the fact that he's just brazenly lying about "seeing it on the game film" as he tries to continue this jerk off discussion about wanting him to start.
It's not a productive conversation.
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3 new starters on this OL. Might not be a terrible idea to give them a few games to gel. I suspect there will be some extra blown/missed assignments until those guys learn how to play together.
I'm not in favor of sitting Kizer on principle just because he's a rookie. But if it is close, I'd like to get that OL warmed up first.
tristan+kyrie=$
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Bitonio is so injury prone
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http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/...-deshone-kizer-make-case-for-starting-qb-jobs
Cleveland Browns reporter Pat McManamon on Kizer:
Brock Osweiler was announced as the starter against the Saints, Cody Kessler called it part of the process. Kizer bristled, saying he's a competitor and wants to play. But he never second-guessed his coach or questioned the decision. He simply went out and played better.
What's the biggest concern with your rookie QB at this point?
The leap from the college spread system that is focused on pace and calling plays quickly to an NFL game that requires pre- and post-snap reads and protections and hot reads and all the other things that a quarterback has to decide in seconds is not easy. Jackson said there are "hidden" things Kizer must improve. The first is calling the play in the huddle, something he never did at Notre Dame and is learning in Cleveland. The second is the complex progressions and reads that the average fan or media member does not see. That growth might happen in practice but it might best happen in games.
Barring injury, when do you think your rookie QB will become the starter?
The safe guess is Kizer starts after the trip to London and the bye week, on Nov. 12 in Detroit. The bold guess is the season opener because neither Osweiler nor Kessler has seized the opportunity to win the starting job. But if Kizer keeps improving, it might be impossible to keep him off the field. That being said, he has yet to face a first-team defense, so the best situation for when he starts is Week 5. That would allow him to play his first game against the Jets, a game at home that should be winnable.
What is the head coach saying about your rookie QB this week?
That it's training camp and he's still learning. Quarterbacks coach David Lee, though, was more pointed; he flat-out said Kizer is not ready, that more time is needed on fundamentals, reads, progressions and calling plays. Jackson's actions, though, made a slightly different statement as he gave Kizer more reps with the starters. Where Kizer takes himself from this point is basically up to him. The opportunity to win the job is there, though the climb is uphill.
Cleveland Browns reporter Pat McManamon on Kizer:
Brock Osweiler was announced as the starter against the Saints, Cody Kessler called it part of the process. Kizer bristled, saying he's a competitor and wants to play. But he never second-guessed his coach or questioned the decision. He simply went out and played better.
What's the biggest concern with your rookie QB at this point?
The leap from the college spread system that is focused on pace and calling plays quickly to an NFL game that requires pre- and post-snap reads and protections and hot reads and all the other things that a quarterback has to decide in seconds is not easy. Jackson said there are "hidden" things Kizer must improve. The first is calling the play in the huddle, something he never did at Notre Dame and is learning in Cleveland. The second is the complex progressions and reads that the average fan or media member does not see. That growth might happen in practice but it might best happen in games.
Barring injury, when do you think your rookie QB will become the starter?
The safe guess is Kizer starts after the trip to London and the bye week, on Nov. 12 in Detroit. The bold guess is the season opener because neither Osweiler nor Kessler has seized the opportunity to win the starting job. But if Kizer keeps improving, it might be impossible to keep him off the field. That being said, he has yet to face a first-team defense, so the best situation for when he starts is Week 5. That would allow him to play his first game against the Jets, a game at home that should be winnable.
What is the head coach saying about your rookie QB this week?
That it's training camp and he's still learning. Quarterbacks coach David Lee, though, was more pointed; he flat-out said Kizer is not ready, that more time is needed on fundamentals, reads, progressions and calling plays. Jackson's actions, though, made a slightly different statement as he gave Kizer more reps with the starters. Where Kizer takes himself from this point is basically up to him. The opportunity to win the job is there, though the climb is uphill.
FrontPageNews
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Yeah he and tretter are very unreliable. I doubt we'll see more than 5 games with the full oline healthy.
sportscoach
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We may have him sitting out game 2 as a just in case type of scenario. At least his backup is Greco who is hopefully 100% and we all know actually should be a strong backup for us this season with his experience. They were saying he wasn't supposed to start the season on the PUP list so that is a good sign for us we have our backup at least.