Cleveland Cavaliers Summer League 2019

[CBBI]

Let me ask you guys this...

Considering Garland got injured a minute into his 5th game, it's really more appropriate to sort his averages over 4 games.

34.3 MPG, .528 FG%, .478 3PT%, .750 FT%, 4.8 RPG, 3.3 APG, 1.0 SPG, 0.5 BPG, 3.8 TOPG, 19.8 PPG

Say Garland doesn't get hurt and his shooting efficiency doesn't drop THAT dramatically as the competition gets tougher and he settles in to a 20-5-4 line on .475/.400/.800 - does he leapfrog Morant and Barrett and go 2nd?

 

[Ozone]

Dude, Garland was the best player available on their board. Full stop. Stop saying things like "fit in Beilein's 2 pg sets."

Darius Garland was the highest rated player on the Cavs' board. This is a known fact.

Darius Garland was the highest rated player on nearly every single NBA board when the Cavs were on the clock.

You're going to have to accept known things if you want to have a constructive conversation.

Wait you don't think there was any chance that the Cavs liked Reddish,Little,or Langford who were all ranked higher than garland at the time of his injury ? Right they must have been satisfied with their assumption that Garland would not have flamed out like all of those guys did that actually played basketball all season.
You have no idea if Garland was the highest guy on anyone's board and this could very well be something of Beilein sticking his nose into the draft process and nothing more. The reason his stock went up near the draft was due to the Suns and Bulls both needing a pg. Much of the season after the injury his stock was all over the place.
Will it work if both remain Cavs? maybe they outscore opposing backcourts who can't shoot and manage to win a couple more games than last year, but they will not be stopping anyone without massive defensive improvements and that alone should make your head itch , but for some reason you think accumulating "highest rated players" is the only way to rebuild.

 

[Nathan S]

Let me ask you guys this...

Considering Garland got injured a minute into his 5th game, it's really more appropriate to sort his averages over 4 games.

34.3 MPG, .528 FG%, .478 3PT%, .750 FT%, 4.8 RPG, 3.3 APG, 1.0 SPG, 0.5 BPG, 3.8 TOPG, 19.8 PPG

Say Garland doesn't get hurt and his shooting efficiency doesn't drop THAT dramatically as the competition gets tougher and he settles in to a 20-5-4 line on .475/.400/.800 - does he leapfrog Morant and Barrett and go 2nd?

I think if he posts those averages (and doesn't look like a lost cause on defense) he's probably neck and neck with Morant. But I also think it's hard to extrapolate from a sample of 4 games, or even to talk meaningfully about an "average" over 4 games. If you remove the Alcorn State game, for instance, all of a sudden he's averaging 25ppg on 72% true shooting. Remove the Liberty game, and he's averaging 15ppg on 58% true shooting. Given that he was generally mocked in the late lottery range when he got injured, I think he could've trended all the way up to #2 behind Zion or all the way down to the point that he doesn't enter the draft. It's hard to say with any certainty.

 

[rcj47]

My issue predraft with Garland was the next to nothing sample size due to his injury. If he shot anything like those numbers over a full season I'd take him over Morant.

 

[BigErieCavsFan]

Oh oh. The sky is falling again this morning.
Or is that just the ozone coming apart?

 

[CBBI]

I think if he posts those averages (and doesn't look like a lost cause on defense) he's probably neck and neck with Morant. But I also think it's hard to extrapolate from a sample of 4 games, or even to talk meaningfully about an "average" over 4 games. If you remove the Alcorn State game, for instance, all of a sudden he's averaging 25ppg on 72% true shooting. Remove the Liberty game, and he's averaging 15ppg on 58% true shooting. Given that he was generally mocked in the late lottery range when he got injured, I think he could've trended all the way up to #2 behind Zion or all the way down to the point that he doesn't enter the draft. It's hard to say with any certainty.

I don't disagree.

I wonder if Garland's decision to shut it down early with an injury that he may have been able to return from, but remain in the draft is something that other prospects will try and emulate moving forward.

As much as we want to believe a larger sample size could have helped Garland solidify himself as the clear cut No. 2 prospect, it could have just as easily (if not more so) really hurt his stock overall.

It's hard to argue that the mystery of not playing was a benefit at this point.

 

[Nathan S]

I don't disagree.

I wonder if Garland's decision to shut it down early with an injury that he may have been able to return from, but remain in the draft is something that other prospects will try and emulate moving forward.

As much as we want to believe a larger sample size could have helped Garland solidify himself as the clear cut No. 2 prospect, it could have just as easily (if not more so) really hurt his stock overall.

It's hard to argue that the mystery of not playing was a benefit at this point.

Yeah, i think about his teammate Simi Shittu, for instance. He came back from a torn ACL to play last season, got off to a decent start, then completely flamed out in conference play. He likely would've been a lottery pick if he'd simply sat out the season to rehab. Instead he went undrafted and may not even get a contract.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

Wait you don't think there was any chance that the Cavs liked Reddish,Little,or Langford who were all ranked higher than garland at the time of his injury ?

There is a zero percent chance the Cavaliers organization liked Reddish, Little or Langford more than Garland.

That's not what I think. That's what our insiders told us before the draft. That information was then proven via what the organization showed us at the draft. You know, drafting Darius Garland ahead of those guys.

Your conjecture is tiring, and it still doesn't belong in this thread.

 

[Ozone]

There is a zero percent chance the Cavaliers organization liked Reddish, Little or Langford more than Garland.

That's not what I think. That's what our insiders told us before the draft. That information was then proven via what the organization showed us at the draft. You know, drafting Darius Garland ahead of those guys.

Your conjecture is tiring, and it still doesn't belong in this thread.

LOL of course they didn't like those 3 at the time of the draft better because their stocks were down from terrible college seasons. Yet all 3 were ranked higher than Garland at the exact time Garland got injured. So there is always the chance Garland simply moved up draft boards as the season went on based only on others who were ranked higher not living up to their pre college hype.
The draft is a crapshoot and trying to pretend that the Cavs big board had everything to do with Garland being their guy at the top, instead of the fact that teams in the lottery and outside the lottery needed a pg upgrade and there was a limited supply in this draft class raised his value further.
Trying to suggest you "know " he wasn't picked to be flipped is ignorant, even if the trades didn't happen or don't.

 

[dark2332]

LOL of course they didn't like those 3 at the time of the draft better because their stocks were down from terrible college seasons. Yet all 3 were ranked higher than Garland at the exact time Garland got injured. So there is always the chance Garland simply moved up draft boards as the season went on based only on others who were ranked higher not living up to their pre college hype.
The draft is a crapshoot and trying to pretend that the Cavs big board had everything to do with Garland being their guy at the top, instead of the fact that teams in the lottery and outside the lottery needed a pg upgrade and there was a limited supply in this draft class raised his value further.
Trying to suggest you "know " he wasn't picked to be flipped is ignorant, even if the trades didn't happen or don't.

Mods, could we either move this to the Garland thread or end it altogether?

 

[NMCav]

LOL of course they didn't like those 3 at the time of the draft better because their stocks were down from terrible college seasons. Yet all 3 were ranked higher than Garland at the exact time Garland got injured. So there is always the chance Garland simply moved up draft boards as the season went on based only on others who were ranked higher not living up to their pre college hype.
The draft is a crapshoot and trying to pretend that the Cavs big board had everything to do with Garland being their guy at the top, instead of the fact that teams in the lottery and outside the lottery needed a pg upgrade and there was a limited supply in this draft class raised his value further.
Trying to suggest you "know " he wasn't picked to be flipped is ignorant, even if the trades didn't happen or don't.

The night of lottery I think it was Joe Vardon literally told us De'Andre Hunter or Darius Garland were the two names he was hearing. So pretty sure since the lotto we were going to end up with Hunter or Garland. One of them was clearly going to be available at 5.

 

[Ozone]

The night of lottery I think it was Joe Vardon literally told us De'Andre Hunter or Darius Garland were the two names he was hearing. So pretty sure since the lotto we were going to end up with Hunter or Garland. One of them was clearly going to be available at 5.

those were the 2 highest trade up targets which did make them the most likely to get drafted 4 and 5 but draft rankings and long term projections rarely ever coexist which is why so many Siakim's or Gobert types are way undervalued.

 

[Jordan]

I don't understand how people are worried about garlands sample size, especially when Kyrie played about the same amount of games before we drafted him.

I mean, Kyrie played over twice as many college games and was widely considered the best or second best prospect in his high school class amongst analysts. The situations are absolutely different.

With that said, I really like Garland and I think it was the best pick at #5. The kid looks like a natural scorer and, at least in the high school tapes I've seen, he has the potential to become a good playmaker.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

LOL of course they didn't like those 3 at the time of the draft better because their stocks were down from terrible college seasons. Yet all 3 were ranked higher than Garland at the exact time Garland got injured. So there is always the chance Garland simply moved up draft boards as the season went on based only on others who were ranked higher not living up to their pre college hype.
The draft is a crapshoot and trying to pretend that the Cavs big board had everything to do with Garland being their guy at the top, instead of the fact that teams in the lottery and outside the lottery needed a pg upgrade and there was a limited supply in this draft class raised his value further.
Trying to suggest you "know " he wasn't picked to be flipped is ignorant, even if the trades didn't happen or don't.

Besides the whole "fit" thing we got into earlier, it seems you also have this fixation with rankings on generic media sites early in the process. Do you understand why those rankings would be poor? If you're going to claim that an organization's draft board should be based off of generic media shitposts, which is basically what those draft rankings are early on, then I'd encourage you to listen a bit more and read up on some of the things that get posted on RCF.

You're the only person on the planet claiming the Cavs drafted Darius Garland in order to immediately trade him. Yet, somehow, it's clearly everyone else who's ignorant, crazy, etc.

I'm done responding to this line of nonsense in a thread that has nothing to do with it.

 

[bryankdavis]

Garland is still filling out and he is already shooting effortlessly from Steph Curry range. Garland also crushed his workout with everyone watching- "...went at least 5 minutes without missing a shot". Considering how far away he was while canning some of his shots, that is really hard to do.

Garland Private Workout

If he can stay healthy, he has a good chance to be a superstar.