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Cleveland Guardians Offseason Discussion 2021-22

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Pretty much what happened.

They made 2 big plays for Olson and Winker. And it wasn’t 1 or the other, they wanted both.

Virtual guarantee if Freddie Freeman had re-signed with Atlanta Olson was coming to Cleveland.

Timeline didn’t work in their favor making a deal for Winker.

They were never going to get Castellanos or Schwarber. Kicked the tires on Story after the Correa news looking to do something similar (an out after 1 year) but he has health concerns and prioritized longevity over potentially double dipping FA in his prime.

Shoulda, coulda, woulda’s don’t sell tickets, get fans to the park, get fans watching, or sell merch though.

Fans are pissed, home opener which typically sells out in 1 hour still has thousands of tickets available almost 2 weeks into them being made available. Higher ups are feeling the heat on that too, especially after every one of note said payroll would increase to more pre-Covid levels and the farm system is healthy. They knew where fan expectations would go the moment they said that publicly.

Still some time to generate some buzz heading into a season with as little enthusiasm surrounding the team as I can remember in my 30 years following them or being around them (worst ST crowds in Goodyear since they moved the ST facility to AZ), but this entire off-season has been a huge whiff and they know it.

What makes them a well run organization, from an operational standpoint not monetarily, worked against them in a constricted time frame this off-season. Excuses don’t sell tickets though.

Thanks for the update. I know giving big $ extensions for players in Jose's situation hasn't been the way they've operated in the past and most of the time I'd agree it isn't wise to do. But in this moment - with fans upset and some becoming disinterested, a rebrand in action, and so much young, ML-ready talent that's cheap over the next few years they need to get this done. People used to hope stars wouldn't leave - now they expect them to 2-3 years before they even hit FA.

I hope they realize how big of a moment this is for the future of the franchise.
 
Just words? Or is he really interested? Too much?


I think if we get him a deal that's within reason he will likely sign.... Think of a Corey Kluber extension...
 
Just words? Or is he really interested? Too much?

I'd take the guaranteed money when I'm having trouble gripping the ball too.
 
I wonder how much Opening Day staying an evening start time is impacting sales. We are going and have club seats but I'll keep it real, without club seats (and the ability to go inside and warm up a bit if needed) I doubt we'd go.
 
Appreciate you coming back and relaying the info, especially when it was tough news. I know it’s not what your message says, but it reads like and it seemed to play out like there was no backup plan if those two guys couldn’t happen. If that’s the case, that seems pretty short sighted to me.

If we really do still plan to add pieces, Now we have to hope we don’t get off to a slow start and are actually in position to be buyers.

Short-sighted isn’t the right description of it. I’d agree short-sighted if they made panic moves after missing their 1a and 1B targets that potentially hamstring them down the road, a la Swisher and Bourn.

They liked 2 ideas. Grabbing sure fire things that make the lineup or bullpen considerably better with meat on the bone for team control to either move them again to recoup prospects or look into extending once they see the new cash flow system after a season and what that looks like.

It was either that or what you’re experiencing now. That was always the “fall back”. Wasn’t like if they didn’t land Olson they were going to go out and sign Rizzo, or if they didn’t land Winker they were going to go out and sign Schwarber. That’s just not realistic for the constraints in place.

The line they flirted with is they were sure they were going to get at least 1 of Olson or Winker, if not both, heading into the lockout and ended up with none and their 2 paths are extreme opposites of each other. Both make sense from an operational standpoint when you’re trying to shoehorn a contending team out of a young roster, either now or in the future. Both are satisfactory outcomes for them, operationally, as they are quite high on a number of their young guys knocking on the door.

But both have completely different effects and are wildly different when viewed from a fan perspective. One shows they’re trying to win now to fans, the other tells them they don’t care about competing (not true, but understandably so). There will always be a disconnect between how front offices view team building and fans view team building. Their 2 outcomes just so happen to be an extreme polar opposite of each other, which had them playing with fire when it came to the fan aspect of things and expectations from fans.

Short-sighted isn’t the description I’d use. I’m not sure what description I’d use, to be honest, but not short-sighted.
 
So far,
I think Chang has the best shot at 2B.
While some OF's have had their moments, I don't think anybody has a clear lead on a major league job. Maybe Kwan.
Zimmer trails everybody.
 
Short-sighted isn’t the right description of it. I’d agree short-sighted if they made panic moves after missing their 1a and 1B targets that potentially hamstring them down the road, a la Swisher and Bourn.

They liked 2 ideas. Grabbing sure fire things that make the lineup or bullpen considerably better with meat on the bone for team control to either move them again to recoup prospects or look into extending once they see the new cash flow system after a season and what that looks like.

It was either that or what you’re experiencing now. That was always the “fall back”. Wasn’t like if they didn’t land Olson they were going to go out and sign Rizzo, or if they didn’t land Winker they were going to go out and sign Schwarber. That’s just not realistic for the constraints in place.

The line they flirted with is they were sure they were going to get at least 1 of Olson or Winker, if not both, heading into the lockout and ended up with none and their 2 paths are extreme opposites of each other. Both make sense from an operational standpoint when you’re trying to shoehorn a contending team out of a young roster, either now or in the future. Both are satisfactory outcomes for them, operationally, as they are quite high on a number of their young guys knocking on the door.

But both have completely different effects and are wildly different when viewed from a fan perspective. One shows they’re trying to win now to fans, the other tells them they don’t care about competing (not true, but understandably so). There will always be a disconnect between how front offices view team building and fans view team building. Their 2 outcomes just so happen to be an extreme polar opposite of each other, which had them playing with fire when it came to the fan aspect of things and expectations from fans.

Short-sighted isn’t the description I’d use. I’m not sure what description I’d use, to be honest, but not short-sighted.

Would you say anyone else of signifigance is possible (Conforto or a trade like Marte, Meadows, etc) or are they more focused on extensions now?
 
Would you say anyone else of signifigance is possible (Conforto or a trade like Marte, Meadows, etc) or are they more focused on extensions now?

Very very very slim chances of them bringing in anyone externally between now and Opening Day, by trade or FA. They have an options crunch coming which could change some 40 man makeup but that's about it.

All internal now.
 
Very very very slim chances of them bringing in anyone externally between now and Opening Day, by trade or FA. They have an options crunch coming which could change some 40 man makeup but that's about it.

All internal now.
Just hope we get to at least watch some of the kids. I know I am not alone when saying I have seen enough of Zimmer and would much rather watch Kwan in the outfield daily. I trust the coaches to decide if Arias is ready now or not. I personally would love to see him at short daily. I am not a fan of Bradley and would rather see Chang move over to 1st with Gimenez at 2nd. Bradley out of options basically will keep him on the roster. Not the off season I thought would happen.
 
I just looked at the injury report, we should get an update on Maile tomorrow, but Karinchak and Sandlin are out at the moment... we are likely going 15 pitchers north to start the season and at the moment we have 14 healthy on the 40 man... I feel like we will need to add a pitcher or two to the 40 man... We may have to have Sandlin and Karinchak start the season on the DL and have them have a rehab stint in the minors depending on how they respond...
 
Excuses are excuses. But the excuse of a constricted timeline just feels extra ridiculous to me. Everyone knew it was going to be a constricted timeline.

There’s just no excuse to not be able to adapt to something that was obviously going to happen as soon as the lockout happened.
 
Excuses are excuses. But the excuse of a constricted timeline just feels extra ridiculous to me. Everyone knew it was going to be a constricted timeline.

There’s just no excuse to not be able to adapt to something that was obviously going to happen as soon as the lockout happened.

Constricted timeline only effected Winker for reason's I've already explained in here.

Not an excuse, the reality of the situation Cincy was looking at with a Winker deal post-lockout.
 

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