• Changing RCF's index page, please click on "Forums" to access the forums.

Game Thread | Knicks playoff series Game #5 | Knicks @ Cavs | April 26, 2023 | 7:00 NBA TV

Do Not Sell My Personal Information
I think we win tonight. The home-road gap for this team is surreal, and the Knicks know it’s not truly must win for them. Game 6 will be a huge test and thats where I feel like we’ll likely go down

If we do choke tonight that says a LOT, none of it good
 
Last edited:
I think whatever happens tonight is a beatdown.
 
So this is only on nba tv? As a filthy casual I won’t be able to watch this if I’m just a regular cable subscriber?
 
So this is only on nba tv? As a filthy casual I won’t be able to watch this if I’m just a regular cable subscriber?
It'll be on Bally's too. If u have cable u should have Bally's too.
 
The Athletic interviewed an anonymous NBA assistant coach for his thoughts on the series. Here are some of them.

I just think that one of the Cavs’ strengths all season was defending the rim. They play two bigs a lot of the time and you see their bigs are coming over to help so early and so often. Part of the problem is the on-ball, one-on-one defense by the Cavs’ guards is not necessarily good enough. But the Cavs have thrived in overhelping to some degree. That’s kinda where their identity is defensively: They have their big men take care of the paint.

My comment: San Vecenie pointed out the same thing - Allen and Mobley have been "overhelping", obviously because the Cavs' guards and wings can't defend one-on-one well enough against elite scorers like Brunson. But forcing a missed shot doesn't help much if your big man is contesting the shot and you have somebody like LeVert, Garland, or Cedi trying to keep Robinson off the glass.

I think the only counter they have is trying to, at least in rotations, dictate who’s shooting the shot. But I think they’re just gonna do what they do and then maybe put more of a premium on guarding the ball a little bit better.

So he doesn't think JBB is going to change anything, just hope they start "guarding the ball a little better".

One-on-one defense is borderline impossible in the NBA right now. You see good teams that do it. Obviously, there are elite one-on-one players defensively. But a lot of it is, where is your help? ...A lot of it is the (team defense), less so on-the-ball defense. But I do think the Knicks’ bigs have done a good job of spacing and letting their ballhandlers, particularly Brunson, go to work.

Q. Despite playing with two towers, the Cavs were not a top-notch rebounding team in the regular season. Still, the Knicks have killed them on the glass. What do you make of that?

A. The Knicks’ bigs have done a good job at playing behind (Cavs center) Jarrett Allen, playing behind (Cavs power forward Evan) Mobley and getting these good dunker reads to open up space, right? Robinson and Isaiah Hartenstein do a great job of moving along the baseline. So when Allen goes to help, they’re already out of his sight and vision. They’re in offensive rebound position, and they’re in dunk or dump-off position.

Q. Defensively, I think Robinson has been extraordinary in this series. What, to you, is the difference for him from the regular season to now?

A. I think the matchup helps him because he’s never gonna guard any stretch bigs against the Cavs. He’s gonna be on Allen. He’s gonna be on Mobley. He can be in the paint and do what he does best.

I thought in Game 4, Hartenstein, (Obi) Toppin and (Immanuel) Quickley changed the game....the third quarter, the start of the third quarter, when Darius Garland was taking over, the Knicks needed a change. And credit to Thibs for making a change and sticking with those bench guys (through the fourth quarter) to change the momentum and change the flow of the game.

Q. Let’s talk about Randle. Something is up. He returned from an ankle sprain for Game 1 but he hasn’t looked like an All-Star. Thibodeau gave it away after the game the other night that Randle is playing hurt when he said that most players in the NBA would not be playing right now. Can the Knicks do anything differently to make life easier for him? Should the Cavs do anything differently to even further take advantage of where he’s at?

A. I think the Cavs need to keep putting him in the pick-and-roll. I think they need to keep attacking him and keep attacking Brunson. The Cavs have kinda gone away from attacking Brunson, which on the other side is something I feel like the Knicks have done a great job of offensively: attacking Donovan Mitchell and Garland.

But to answer your first question, I would say that what I would do is — they have a couple of post-up plays for him I feel like they haven’t run necessarily. Maybe that’s the Mobley matchup. Maybe it’s because he is more hurt than we know. But I would try to get him closer to the basket, especially when Allen is off the court.

I think he can attack some of those second-line matchups (such as when Cedi Osman guarded him for parts of Game 4). I would say, get him closer to the rim. Get him to the free-throw line. His balance looks a little weird on his jump shot. It feels like he’s fading at times.

But to close out a series on the road, you’re gonna need him and you’re gonna need him to play at a high level. You need your best to be their best in the biggest games. So, I anticipate him being very aggressive to start Game 5. I think he’ll bounce back. But to me, it’s shots at the rim and free throws. He’s gotta get to the rim, get to the free-throw line, see the ball go through the net a little bit, get back to playing a little more smash mouth.

Q. Especially when Isaac Okoro or Ricky Rubio is on the floor, the Knicks are helping into the lane. For example, when Brunson was on Okoro on Sunday, it was as if Okoro wasn’t even there. How do the Cavs better attack that? Do they need to use Okoro as an off-ball screener more? Are there more effective cuts for him to make, more effective plays for them to run? Do they just need to make it like Game 2, which Cleveland won? Okoro played less than three minutes and Caris LeVert got hot in his place. They started going back to Okoro after that and have inserted Rubio at times, too. What is the way for them to play this?

A. These are the difficult coaching questions that some people don’t fathom. Okoro has been starting for them for the majority of the season, and now they start LeVert, which I thought was the right thing to do. But now, the Knicks are full-body helping off of him and just forcing them to kick the ball to him.

They’re gonna dare him to shoot. Now, can he get hot and make them pay at home? Maybe. But that’s the gamble the Knicks are willing to take.

I thought the Knicks did a great job of throwing double-teams at Mitchell and Garland, especially when only one of them was on the court, and just leaving Rubio. And there’s a point where it’s like, you either don’t play them or you just have confidence in them to make plays. If I was the Cavs, I would give Okoro a look early and see how he’s going. They’re getting wide-open corner 3s.

Okoro has worked himself into a good shooter from the corners in particular, but for someone who’s not a natural-born shooter like that, those open shots are very, very difficult. They’re tough to make. So, I think it gets in your head a little bit, for sure. It’s a challenge for them.


It’s hard because he’s their best perimeter defender, too, so that’s where it becomes difficult. But the reality is that he’s gonna have to make shots for them to play him because he’s being left open. But yeah, I’d probably play more LeVert, more Cedi, and see if offensively at home those guys can make shots.

Q. The Knicks were 19th in points allowed per possession during the regular season. That doesn’t take into account that they didn’t have Josh Hart for most of the season and they weren’t healthy at times and now they are. But this looks like not even like a good defense; they’re playing like an elite one. What do you see has brought to take them to that level?

A. I know from a rankings standpoint, they weren’t as high, but from a process standpoint, I think they do just about as good a job as anyone does in terms of just taking away the paint, taking away the rim and free throws and not allowing you to find a rhythm close to the basket. They dare you to make the extra pass. They dare you to make 3s. And I think from a process standpoint, that’s probably the best way to do it...I just think they have a good process of how they play defense. And sometimes, it’s not gonna be great....There were probably a handful of games you look at and some teams made 15 to 20 3s, and you’re not gonna win that way. But they take away the high-value shots. They take away the rim. They take away the paint. They take away free throws.


My comment: The Cavs beat the Knicks two times in eight games and in those two games they made 42% and 47% of their 3's. This coach is right - you can't beat the Knicks driving to the rim. You have to play an inside-outside game where you dump it to the low post or dribble-drive into the paint, shrink the defense, and kick it out for an open 3. And then you've got to make 40% of them.
 
The Athletic interviewed an anonymous NBA assistant coach for his thoughts on the series. Here are some of them.

I just think that one of the Cavs’ strengths all season was defending the rim. They play two bigs a lot of the time and you see their bigs are coming over to help so early and so often. Part of the problem is the on-ball, one-on-one defense by the Cavs’ guards is not necessarily good enough. But the Cavs have thrived in overhelping to some degree. That’s kinda where their identity is defensively: They have their big men take care of the paint.

My comment: San Vecenie pointed out the same thing - Allen and Mobley have been "overhelping", obviously because the Cavs' guards and wings can't defend one-on-one well enough against elite scorers like Brunson. But forcing a missed shot doesn't help much if your big man is contesting the shot and you have somebody like LeVert, Garland, or Cedi trying to keep Robinson off the glass.

I think the only counter they have is trying to, at least in rotations, dictate who’s shooting the shot. But I think they’re just gonna do what they do and then maybe put more of a premium on guarding the ball a little bit better.

So he doesn't think JBB is going to change anything, just hope they start "guarding the ball a little better".

One-on-one defense is borderline impossible in the NBA right now. You see good teams that do it. Obviously, there are elite one-on-one players defensively. But a lot of it is, where is your help? ...A lot of it is the (team defense), less so on-the-ball defense. But I do think the Knicks’ bigs have done a good job of spacing and letting their ballhandlers, particularly Brunson, go to work.

Q. Despite playing with two towers, the Cavs were not a top-notch rebounding team in the regular season. Still, the Knicks have killed them on the glass. What do you make of that?

A. The Knicks’ bigs have done a good job at playing behind (Cavs center) Jarrett Allen, playing behind (Cavs power forward Evan) Mobley and getting these good dunker reads to open up space, right? Robinson and Isaiah Hartenstein do a great job of moving along the baseline. So when Allen goes to help, they’re already out of his sight and vision. They’re in offensive rebound position, and they’re in dunk or dump-off position.

Q. Defensively, I think Robinson has been extraordinary in this series. What, to you, is the difference for him from the regular season to now?

A. I think the matchup helps him because he’s never gonna guard any stretch bigs against the Cavs. He’s gonna be on Allen. He’s gonna be on Mobley. He can be in the paint and do what he does best.

I thought in Game 4, Hartenstein, (Obi) Toppin and (Immanuel) Quickley changed the game....the third quarter, the start of the third quarter, when Darius Garland was taking over, the Knicks needed a change. And credit to Thibs for making a change and sticking with those bench guys (through the fourth quarter) to change the momentum and change the flow of the game.

Q. Let’s talk about Randle. Something is up. He returned from an ankle sprain for Game 1 but he hasn’t looked like an All-Star. Thibodeau gave it away after the game the other night that Randle is playing hurt when he said that most players in the NBA would not be playing right now. Can the Knicks do anything differently to make life easier for him? Should the Cavs do anything differently to even further take advantage of where he’s at?

A. I think the Cavs need to keep putting him in the pick-and-roll. I think they need to keep attacking him and keep attacking Brunson. The Cavs have kinda gone away from attacking Brunson, which on the other side is something I feel like the Knicks have done a great job of offensively: attacking Donovan Mitchell and Garland.

But to answer your first question, I would say that what I would do is — they have a couple of post-up plays for him I feel like they haven’t run necessarily. Maybe that’s the Mobley matchup. Maybe it’s because he is more hurt than we know. But I would try to get him closer to the basket, especially when Allen is off the court.

I think he can attack some of those second-line matchups (such as when Cedi Osman guarded him for parts of Game 4). I would say, get him closer to the rim. Get him to the free-throw line. His balance looks a little weird on his jump shot. It feels like he’s fading at times.

But to close out a series on the road, you’re gonna need him and you’re gonna need him to play at a high level. You need your best to be their best in the biggest games. So, I anticipate him being very aggressive to start Game 5. I think he’ll bounce back. But to me, it’s shots at the rim and free throws. He’s gotta get to the rim, get to the free-throw line, see the ball go through the net a little bit, get back to playing a little more smash mouth.

Q. Especially when Isaac Okoro or Ricky Rubio is on the floor, the Knicks are helping into the lane. For example, when Brunson was on Okoro on Sunday, it was as if Okoro wasn’t even there. How do the Cavs better attack that? Do they need to use Okoro as an off-ball screener more? Are there more effective cuts for him to make, more effective plays for them to run? Do they just need to make it like Game 2, which Cleveland won? Okoro played less than three minutes and Caris LeVert got hot in his place. They started going back to Okoro after that and have inserted Rubio at times, too. What is the way for them to play this?

A. These are the difficult coaching questions that some people don’t fathom. Okoro has been starting for them for the majority of the season, and now they start LeVert, which I thought was the right thing to do. But now, the Knicks are full-body helping off of him and just forcing them to kick the ball to him.

They’re gonna dare him to shoot. Now, can he get hot and make them pay at home? Maybe. But that’s the gamble the Knicks are willing to take.

I thought the Knicks did a great job of throwing double-teams at Mitchell and Garland, especially when only one of them was on the court, and just leaving Rubio. And there’s a point where it’s like, you either don’t play them or you just have confidence in them to make plays. If I was the Cavs, I would give Okoro a look early and see how he’s going. They’re getting wide-open corner 3s.

Okoro has worked himself into a good shooter from the corners in particular, but for someone who’s not a natural-born shooter like that, those open shots are very, very difficult. They’re tough to make. So, I think it gets in your head a little bit, for sure. It’s a challenge for them.


It’s hard because he’s their best perimeter defender, too, so that’s where it becomes difficult. But the reality is that he’s gonna have to make shots for them to play him because he’s being left open. But yeah, I’d probably play more LeVert, more Cedi, and see if offensively at home those guys can make shots.

Q. The Knicks were 19th in points allowed per possession during the regular season. That doesn’t take into account that they didn’t have Josh Hart for most of the season and they weren’t healthy at times and now they are. But this looks like not even like a good defense; they’re playing like an elite one. What do you see has brought to take them to that level?

A. I know from a rankings standpoint, they weren’t as high, but from a process standpoint, I think they do just about as good a job as anyone does in terms of just taking away the paint, taking away the rim and free throws and not allowing you to find a rhythm close to the basket. They dare you to make the extra pass. They dare you to make 3s. And I think from a process standpoint, that’s probably the best way to do it...I just think they have a good process of how they play defense. And sometimes, it’s not gonna be great....There were probably a handful of games you look at and some teams made 15 to 20 3s, and you’re not gonna win that way. But they take away the high-value shots. They take away the rim. They take away the paint. They take away free throws.


My comment: The Cavs beat the Knicks two times in eight games and in those two games they made 42% and 47% of their 3's. This coach is right - you can't beat the Knicks driving to the rim. You have to play an inside-outside game where you dump it to the low post or dribble-drive into the paint, shrink the defense, and kick it out for an open 3. And then you've got to make 40% of them.
On Okoro/Brunson. I would like to see Okoro used as the screener more in actions like this. His secondary passing and ability to attack down hill are both very good. I still dont know why we don't use him as a power guard ala Bruce Brown more like this.
 
On Okoro/Brunson. I would like to see Okoro used as the screener more in actions like this. His secondary passing and ability to attack down hill are both very good. I still dont know why we don't use him as a power guard ala Bruce Brown more like this.
Also they can just agree that he cuts if the guard has both feet in the key. If he catches the ball on the move 1 dribble and attacks it should be fine
 
So this is only on nba tv? As a filthy casual I won’t be able to watch this if I’m just a regular cable subscriber?
Get on @RonG discord he tries to stream the games
 
Ugh. No ESPN. I'm in Ecuador right now - so another game that I can't watch in a bar...unless I bring my iPad to a bar. Ugh. Can't they stagger games a little better? I guess not - can't really stagger 3 weekday evening games. It's funny how they treat the games in the Garden like huge events (ABC) and then bury the Cleveland games involving the same 2 teams.

Anyway, I think we'll know if the Cavs win this one by the time there are 5 mins left in the first.
 
Ugh. No ESPN. I'm in Ecuador right now - so another game that I can't watch in a bar...unless I bring my iPad to a bar. Ugh. Can't they stagger games a little better? I guess not - can't really stagger 3 weekday evening games. It's funny how they treat the games in the Garden like huge events (ABC) and then bury the Cleveland games involving the same 2 teams.

Anyway, I think we'll know if the Cavs win this one by the time there are 5 mins left in the first.
Crowd needs to be loud and supportive ESPECIALLY if we stumble early. Don’t let the team quit. Don’t let the Knicks celebrate on our court.

I’m afraid crowd will go into depression quickly if there’s an ugly start.
 
Crowd needs to be loud and supportive ESPECIALLY if we stumble early. Don’t let the team quit. Don’t let the Knicks celebrate on our court.

I’m afraid crowd will go into depression quickly if there’s an ugly start.
That's the worse case scenario out the gate. The fans getting quiet.

Best case scenario overall is a 20+ win and an injury to Brunson or Robinson

A Knick fan friend didn't like that - said I'm wishing injury lol but I'm not. It's just the best case scenario
 

Rubber Rim Job Podcast Video

Episode 3-15: "Cavs Survive and Advance"

Rubber Rim Job Podcast Spotify

Episode 3:15: Cavs Survive and Advance
Top