Hue Jackson and Todd Haley Fired

[godfather]

I think people also ignore an important factor how much a good coordinator/coach can do to make things "easy" for a rookie QB. A lot of what we saw Hue did with Kessler today for example.

That's why coaching does matter, only a lot in this league.

They run a lot of quick screens, play action, a lot of high percentage plays to put these guys in a higher position to do better.

Now, that's not to say Wentz hasn't shown some outstanding arm ability/plays himself. He has. I'd hope a first round QB would.

We've seen a lot of QBs with outstanding ability to make all the throws, have a lot of talent and just end up failing anyways.

I think Tannehill has all the tools you want in a QB for example, and he's been underwhelming to say the least.

The challenge lies when the training wheels finally come off and Wentz is evaluated a hell of a lot more by defensive coordinators and they get a bigger sense of tendencies. What he does well, what he doesn't. And when they force him to counter his game in other facets.

Can he? Will he? Well, in that regard, no one knows at this point. But yeah, it's hard to say the guy has no talent to play in this league. Doesn't mean he's already proved without a doubt he can though in the long-run.

 

[AZ_]

I'd feel pretty good about Hue Jackson, Pep Hamilton and Al Saunders getting a chance to develop a good young QB.

 

[Lee]

Anyone saying Wentz hasnt been and will be good at this point is in denial.

But, anyone saying that trading back to gain young talent and picks is also in Denial.

End of discussion really. We have zero evidence that Wentz wouldnt have been another Couch on the Browns. A good QB ruined by a bad line, zero weapons and truly punch drunk.

 

[AZ_]

Anyone saying Wentz hasnt been and will be good at this point is in denial.

But, anyone saying that trading back to gain young talent and picks is also in Denial.

End of discussion really. We have zero evidence that Wentz wouldnt have been another Couch on the Browns. A good QB ruined by a bad line, zero weapons and truly punch drunk.

Except the Browns have weapons, 3 good offensive lineman and an offensive minded head coach and staff who could handle it.

But other than that, you're right.

 

[inliner311]

Except the Browns have weapons, 3 good offensive lineman and an offensive minded head coach and staff who could handle it.

But other than that, you're right.

At the time of the draft the weapons were real questionable. Barnidge and Duke were really the only ones in my eyes. I'd would have put Crow in the maybe category. Pryor hadn't step up, Gordon was up in the air, they wouldn't have Coleman, Louis, or Payton because they came from draft picks derived from the #2.

I wouldn't want to put the #2 draft pick behind this offensive line.

 

[AZ_]

At the time of the draft the weapons were real questionable. Barnidge and Duke were really the only ones in my eyes. I'd would have put Crow in the maybe category. Pryor hadn't step up, Gordon was up in the air, they wouldn't have Coleman, Louis, or Payton because they came from draft picks derived from the #2.

I wouldn't want to put the #2 draft pick behind this offensive line.

The Eagles lead the league in drops and have little to work with at the position.

It hasn't slowed Wentz down all that much.

He'd still be a good QB worth building around.

There's simply no way around it, the Browns should have taken the kid in retrospect.

That's not to say they're fucked, but they had the opportunity to fix the QB position and passed based on their evaluation of this player. That evaluation was wrong.

 

[MoFlo]

Except the Browns have weapons, 3 good offensive lineman and an offensive minded head coach and staff who could handle it.

But other than that, you're right.

Except, at the time, we didn't have Coleman, we didn't know we'd end up with Louis, Payton, or Higgins, Gordon was still getting suspended, and Pryor was far from a sure thing. Not to mention, we had lost 2/5 of our OL and were going to be counting on Cam Erving as our new center.

Not saying Wentz hasn't been impressive or that we won't end up regretting taking him, but I'll stop short of saying we should have taken him. Far too much goes into knowing that for sure until:

A) We see what QB we end up with

B) We see who we take with Philly's 1st

C) We see how the trade finalizes

D) Wentz goes along in his career

 

[godfather]

3 games don't tell you much....okay... Does he look like he can play in the NFL right now?

Playing QB at a high level, in this league? Um, no, it doesn't. There's a difference between coming away with highs/lows about a guy (which I wasn't even disputing).

Making definitive statements about whether drafting him or not at this juncture was a good/bad idea is just stupid..

Some have already made statements in that regard. That's jumping the gun.

I'd be rolling my eyes if he were struggling thus far and people were proclaiming bust, too.

People want to say Coleman is young and promising after one good game. Wentz has had 3 and it's too early to say anything about him...mmkay, I don't disagree, but I will say the guy looks like an NFL quarterback.

First off, apples and oranges. I think playing QB is as much mental as physical. And a hell of a lot more complex. And we're seeing Wentz play it well right now, but I wouldn't rush to judgment so early in these three games.

It's going to get tougher for Wentz. And he'll probably hit a wall like most rookie QBs do. That won't make him suddenly bad when that happens either.

That doesn't mean there are literally zero take aways from Wentz. He's looked good, there's no disputing that. He's shown great accuracy, big arm strength, nice poise. He's looked good. But it will get tougher for him going forward too.

But I'm not gonna shoot down anyone that wants to complain about the Wentz move. It looks bad, it really does.

Anyone that wants to complain are just looking for things to complain about at this point.

What if Kessler actually ends up good, and we end up cashing in on the amount of picks we got? There's just too much hearsay to get technical at what the Browns should or shouldn't have done right now.

Even if Wentz ends up good (and I never disputed or said he wouldn't), I'm still not sure I don't do that trade anyways.

Unless he turns out to be Rodgers or Brady type good, and it'd absurd to go there yet. I still take overall talent on a football ahead of just a good QB. That's me.

The Eagles aren't winning just because of Wentz. Their line has been solid, they have respectable weapons. And they might just have a top-5 defense in football. Their defense has been great thus far.

If there was any serious take away in this game and a lot of games we've seen this week. You can get by with at least decent QB production if you dominate in other ways out on the football field.

I see defenses like Denver, Seattle, Minny, or even Philly today, and that's making me more envious than our QB woes

 

[Chris]

Playing QB at a high level, in this league? Um, no, it doesn't.

Done here.

 

[inliner311]

The Eagles lead the league in drops and have little to work with at the position.

It hasn't slowed Wentz down all that much.

He'd still be a good QB worth building around.

There's simply no way around it, the Browns should have taken the kid in retrospect.

That's not to say they're fucked, but they had the opportunity to fix the QB position and passed based on their evaluation of this player. That evaluation was wrong.

True but it's understandable to pass on a Non-FBS player because the lack on comparable data to use especially on an analytical team. Any model they used to compare the competition levels would be flawed. Has there been another non-FBS QB draft this high or even in the first round in recent history?

 

[Chris]

True but it's understandable to pass on a Non-FBS player because the lack on comparable data to use especially on an analytical team. Any model they used to compare the competition levels would be flawed. Has there been another non-FBS QB draft this high or even in the first round in recent history?

I'm guessing the last was Flacco?

 

[GreasySpread36]

End of discussion really. We have zero evidence that Wentz wouldnt have been another Couch on the Browns. A good QB ruined by a bad line, zero weapons and truly punch drunk.

Obviously we have zero evidence that Wentz would have been ruined here, and the notion that Couch was ruined here is debatable, honestly.

 

[godfather]

Obviously we have zero evidence that Wentz would have been ruined here, and the notion that Couch was ruined here is debatable, honestly.

We do have some evidence he might not be in once piece though.

 

[Amherstcavsfan]

Wentz has a 2nd round WR, 1st round WR, an all pro TE, and a solid running game. The Eagles could take that shot.

The Browns, now, look to be in that same situation. Sucks we missed on Wentz, but it would be different if we missed on the picks. Which we definitely did not do.

Also...I am intrigued by Kessler. He made a lot of smart decisions, plays within himself. At the very least, he looks like a high level backup. I want to see the rest of his development.

 

[Chris]

Wentz has a 2nd round WR, 1st round WR, an all pro TE, and a solid running game. The Eagles could take that shot.

The Browns, now, look to be in that same situation. Sucks we missed on Wentz, but it would be different if we missed on the picks. Which we definitely did not do.

Also...I am intrigued by Kessler. He made a lot of smart decisions, plays within himself. At the very least, he looks like a high level backup. I want to see the rest of his development.

Definitely want to see another 3-4 drafts from this group. This past one has seen some pretty positive returns in the early going, no denying that. It's something to build on. I want to give it a chance. It's something, at least.