Kevin Love - Miami Ground Machine

[Gus Zing]

I was thinking about this as well.

I'm still not sold on the Melo/Love frontcourt defensively. In OKC with Adams and the perimeter D of someone like George and Roberson, it makes up for Melo's shortcomings.

Here it would be a different story, Crowder brings a defensive presence that helps balance out the lineup a bit.

But yeah offensively that lineup would be scary.

Yep. Then again if you're thinking just past this year the move would have made sense as well. We're likely losing Rose and Wade. So that extra scoring punch would be needed.

But yea defensively it would be a struggle. Any let up from Melo and its a layup.

The more I think about it we're asking a lot from Kevin Love. For us to be decent he's gotta start beating guys to a spot and be willing to take the charge. He's not going to block shots or alter them. However, he can sacrifice his body on a few occasions to draw fouls.

 

[ACisKING]

If the team's going all-in on Love as starting center, it makes you wonder why the hell they didn't pull the trigger on the TT/Carmelo trade. And with Zizic displaying sound fundamentals, honestly, it hurts...

I don't think that would work unless Melo was willing to come off the bench (and judging by how he scoffed at that question in a recent interview, he probably would not be). Because otherwise starting Melo with Love means putting Crowder on the bench, which would be a grave mistake. While Love has improved defensively, if the Cavs are going to play someone at center in Love who offers virtually no rim protection and limited ability to switch (to the point that the Cavs often trap the pick and rolls involving Love), then they better play him with as many positive defenders as possible to at least limit penetration, split cuts for layups, backdoor cuts, etc. And Crowder is way better defensively than Melo - like it really isn't even close.

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

If the team's going all-in on Love as starting center, it makes you wonder why the hell they didn't pull the trigger on the TT/Carmelo trade. And with Zizic displaying sound fundamentals, honestly, it hurts...

They also wanted a first round pick too. Just wasn't worth it. And they refused to take Shumpert. They wanted to send Melo west. We would have had to outbid OKC by a clear margin. TT,Frye and our first. Would have made it really hard to trade the Brooklyn pick before the draft and honestly I'm not sure it makes us better. I love the advantage we have over Bostons front court with Love/TT if we need to deploy both of them. Not sure Melo makes us better given our depth at the 3:4

 

[TyGuy]

I was thinking about this as well.

I'm still not sold on the Melo/Love frontcourt defensively. In OKC with Adams and the perimeter D of someone like George and Roberson, it makes up for Melo's shortcomings.

Here it would be a different story, Crowder brings a defensive presence that helps balance out the lineup a bit.

But yeah offensively that lineup would be scary.

Offensively we would be better with Crowder over Melo too. We would have wanted Melo to play more like Crowder on offense and Crowder is much better at being Crowder than Melo is.

 

[I'mWithDan]

Via Reddit:

A few graphs comparing Kevin Love and Tristan Thompson (with a focus on Defense)

Notes and Observations

• All data from NBA.com and NBA Wowy.
• I've seen several comments on r/NBA suggest that moving Love to the 5 and benching TT will destroy the Cav's defense, but I was skeptical, so I decided to look further.
• Thompson may be a slightly better rim protector than Love, but they're both still fairly shitty.
• Their defense by play type is also quite mediocre and similar.
• I look at ORTG, DRTG, and Net RTG in lineups with Love vs. with Thompson, and I also exclude lineups with Mozgov since I want to compare them when they are playing center. It looks like Love is a significant boost on offense (+10 in ORTG) and better by a small amount on defense (-1.5 in DRTG).

 

[Stark]

I have a feeling Love gets back to around 14-15 RPG next season. Thompson and Love are two elite rebounders, and if Love isn't going to be sharing the floor with him as much, he definitely could add a few rebounds per game.

Look for LeBron to get closer to 10 a night as well.

 

[TyGuy]

I have a feeling Love gets back to around 14-15 RPG next season. Thompson and Love are two elite rebounders, and if Love isn't going to be sharing the floor with him as much, he definitely could add a few rebounds per game.

Look for LeBron to get closer to 10 a night as well.

He needs more minutes to reach this. It's all about production per possession because we don't need him playing 37 + minutes a night.

Last year Kevin Love was at 17.6 rebounds per 100. His final year in Minny he was at 17 rebounds per 100. So he was actually a better rebounder last year than he was his final year in Minny. He did have a 21.2 rebounds per 100 season though playing 73 games.

 

[TyGuy]

Via Reddit:

A few graphs comparing Kevin Love and Tristan Thompson (with a focus on Defense)

Notes and Observations

• All data from NBA.com and NBA Wowy.
• I've seen several comments on r/NBA suggest that moving Love to the 5 and benching TT will destroy the Cav's defense, but I was skeptical, so I decided to look further.
• Thompson may be a slightly better rim protector than Love, but they're both still fairly shitty.
• Their defense by play type is also quite mediocre and similar.
• I look at ORTG, DRTG, and Net RTG in lineups with Love vs. with Thompson, and I also exclude lineups with Mozgov since I want to compare them when they are playing center. It looks like Love is a significant boost on offense (+10 in ORTG) and better by a small amount on defense (-1.5 in DRTG).

I made a similar post elsewhere but didn't plot graphs like this guy. He's right, we are going to be awesome and the cavs made the right choice.

 

[TyGuy]

Of course the morons on the nba subreddit have no idea how to interpret this data save for one guy. That place is a true dumpster fire.

"The data actually implies that Love is better defensively by DRTG by a small margin, -1.5 DRTG (comparing when either are center). In some situations, namely the PnR, Thompson is the better option defensively, but in terms of net rating Love is the much better option overall."

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/73zwu5/oc_3350_a_few_graphs_comparing_kevin_love_and/

 

[FrontPageNews]

I was thinking about this as well.

I'm still not sold on the Melo/Love frontcourt defensively. In OKC with Adams and the perimeter D of someone like George and Roberson, it makes up for Melo's shortcomings.

Here it would be a different story, Crowder brings a defensive presence that helps balance out the lineup a bit.

But yeah offensively that lineup would be scary.

I’m not sure even crowder would help that lineup. While he is a good defender hes very prone to letting quicker players get in front of him and that would be disastrous for a Love melo front court.

 

[chuck0609]

The only issue I can have with Love starting at C is the wear and tear it can cause with his back.
If he can hold up physically, do it.

 

[MirORich]

The only issue I can have with Love starting at C is the wear and tear it can cause with his back.
If he can hold up physically, do it.

Love will get his rest games and when he does, Ante and Frye will combine to eat up his 32 MPG
But in practical terms, he was already playing more minutes than Tristan and playing many minutes as the Cavs primary/only BIG on the floor. He'll likely do more of that now, but it won't be an entirely new experience.

 

[dark2332]

If the team's going all-in on Love as starting center, it makes you wonder why the hell they didn't pull the trigger on the TT/Carmelo trade. And with Zizic displaying sound fundamentals, honestly, it hurts...

Because Carmelo Anthony doesn't help us at all. He's not the same player he once was. He is inefficient and needs to dominate the ball to score.

This entire offseason, guys are talking about this new offense. The ball doesn't stick. They take shot after shot about Kyrie dominating the basketball while others just stood out at the arc last season. Even Kyle Korver of all people took shots at Kyrie about it after the scrimmage.

You're saying we should give up the ideal first big off the bench for an older, less talented, less efficient version of a ball-dominant scorer who plays zero defense?

Dwyane Wade on a minimum contract as a creator for this team is so so so much more valuable than Carmelo Anthony. He at least can get shots for others and is a good team defender if given limited minutes.

Tristan Thompson as a hustle big off the bench is his ideal position. He's going to dominate the offensive glass against tired bigs and backups.

 

[Bballguy4]

This entire offseason, guys are talking about this new offense. The ball doesn't stick. They take shot after shot about Kyrie dominating the basketball while others just stood out at the arc last season. Even Kyle Korver of all people took shots at Kyrie about it after the scrimmage.

.

link??

 

[MirORich]

link??

Cavs.com
Video section
Post practice media availability interviews
That's where the media get their quotes from. Not one on one sit down interviews. Listen to those interviews and you'll get the unfiltered quotes and thoughts from players.

In terms of ball movement, the Korver interview and 1-2 other specifically talk about the idea that what they had in the end of last year was often 1 guy dribbling, 3 guys standing around, and one guy cutting and weaving and how this year they are focusing on true interweaving cuts and counters, the type of multi player motion that moves the defense around and exposes holes in the defense.