Kyrie Irving

[Jordan]

I'm for that personally, if they include the lottery pick. If these fuckers get the number one pick, that will be off the table though.

I don't care about the draft pick really. I'd use that draft pick in a trade to get an idea center on this team that can defend at a high level, is athletic, and can not be a liability offensively.

I don't think Mozgov is the answer going forward either. We need to get more athletic and faster on both ends of the floor.

I don't think we are getting even value for Love. He will have value, but I doubt we are getting him for a star player.

And honestly, I'm okay with that. Because LeBron will make this team leaps better at the four. Guys like a Crowder/Bradley fit with the kind of two-way players this team lacks. Obviously they're not as good as Kevin, but they might be better fits here.

But star player for Love, I don't see it happening.

Our only hope, and this is dim, is if Kevin Durant forces himself here. But that's a pipe dream at the moment. But I could see traction for Love then. Because OKC has to worry about Westbrook leaving too. Love and Westbrook are really close.

So if Durant is seriously interested in coming here, we can't completely ignore that. But we have no idea right now obviously.

The bolded absolutely changes my opinion. Listen, I'm not arguing for one-for-one talent tradeoff for Love. That's obviously unlikely, and you're left with players such as DeMarcus Cousins and Blake Griffin, who will pose their own problems when they arrive.

To me, though, trading Love straight up for Bradley and Crowder lowers our overall talent level. This makes it more difficult to win the East, even though we may matchup better against the Warriors. Crowder is a nice piece, do not get me wrong, and he provides a ton of wing versatility. If I was trading with Boston, I'd demand Jae Crowder, Marcus Smart, and the 1st. I doubt Boston does that trade, and Cavs would probably have to give up on Smart, but that would be my original demand. To me, the issue with Crowder/Bradley, is that the latter does not do much for us long term. If I am trading Love I want the deal to get the Cavs at least two certain starters, or, one all star level player.

Assuming, for some reason, that Boston accepts that deal you could flip the 1st and possibly a player like Shump for an athletic center.

Do you see what I am saying? Or am I crazy and demanding too much for Love? I just don't think - assuming he gets back to where he was playing right after the all star break or the start of the season - he is worth any less than two starters or one all-star. Love, in my mind, is still one of the most talented bigs in the game, but unfortunately, just may not fit here.

 

[godfather]

The bolded absolutely changes my opinion. Listen, I'm not arguing for one-for-one talent tradeoff for Love. That's obviously unlikely, and you're left with players such as DeMarcus Cousins and Blake Griffin, who will pose their own problems when they arrive.

To me, though, trading Love straight up for Bradley and Crowder lowers our overall talent level. This makes it more difficult to win the East, even though we may matchup better against the Warriors. Crowder is a nice piece, do not get me wrong, and he provides a ton of wing versatility. If I was trading with Boston, I'd demand Jae Crowder, Marcus Smart, and the 1st. I doubt Boston does that trade, and Cavs would probably have to give up on Smart, but that would be my original demand. To me, the issue with Crowder/Bradley, is that the latter does not do much for us long term. If I am trading Love I want the deal to get the Cavs at least two certain starters, or, one all star level player.

Assuming, for some reason, that Boston accepts that deal you could flip the 1st and possibly a player like Shump for an athletic center.

Do you see what I am saying? Or am I crazy and demanding too much for Love? I just don't think - assuming he gets back to where he was playing right after the all star break or the start of the season - he is worth any less than two starters or one all-star. Love, in my mind, is still one of the most talented bigs in the game, but unfortunately, just may not fit here.

Oh I agree, if we trade Love, I want a good center in return, because I want to fill our needs at least.

One thing about Bradley, that guy just keeps on improving and he's 25 years old. A little younger than Love. I could see him possibly knocking on the door as a borderline all-star player.

I wouldn't want Smart at all. I don't think he'd fit in well. He can't shoot worth shit.

I don't know if Boston would do that trade either. It depends how desperate they get and where they land in the lottery. If they get a top-3 pick, they won't do it at all. I wouldn't blame them either.

 

[Jordan]

Oh I agree, if we trade Love, I want a good center in return, because I want to fill our needs at least.

One thing about Bradley, that guy just keeps on improving and he's 25 years old. A little younger than Love. I could see him possibly knocking on the door as a borderline all-star player.

I wouldn't want Smart at all. I don't think fit in well. He can't shoot worth shit.

I don't know if Boston would do that trade either. It depends how desperate they get and where they land in the lottery. If they get a top-3 pick, they won't do it at all. I wouldn't blame them either.

Interesting that you value Bradley more than Smart. Smart reminds me of a younger version of Shump with more upside. If I'm correct, his shooting is really improving this year, although I haven't looked into the numbers much recently. He's just incredibly versatile defensively.

Bradley is definitely a better two-way player, although I think he will hit his ceiling soon, but I see where you are coming from. If we are going to rebuild/retool this team, we probably want to address the flaws on the current roster, i.e. a lack of two-way players. Not sure I'd rather have him than Smart - mainly because I find the latter's defensive versatility incredibly useful alongside his potential - but your point is well taken.

 

[Rich]

Again, it depends on which guy can get you what and who is available. If Cousins becomes available, it makes more sense to move Love (assuming they'd do that deal, which I'm guessing they wouldn't).

Likewise, if Chris Paul is actually available, it makes way more sense to trade Irving, because if the goal is to give us the best possible odds at winning a title ASAP, Paul+Love is a better fit than Paul+Kyrie.

 

[godfather]

Interesting that you value Bradley more than Smart. Smart reminds me of a younger version of Shump with more upside. If I'm correct, his shooting is really improving this year, although I haven't looked into the numbers much recently. He's just incredibly versatile defensively.

Bradley is definitely a better two-way player, although I think he will hit his ceiling soon, but I see where you are coming from. If we are going to rebuild/retool this team, we probably want to address the flaws on the current roster, i.e. a lack of two-way players. Not sure I'd rather have him than Smart - mainly because I find the latter's defensive versatility incredibly useful alongside his potential - but your point is well taken.

Bradley is the guy I covet the most on the Celtics. I think he's a hell of a player.

Smart isn't a good shooter, and I am done with black holes offensively. I agree he has much bigger upside than Shump though. So it is not entirely fair for me to act like he's a Shump clone.

 

[godfather]

My problem with this particular quote is that in order to have upside your play must continue in an upward trend.

Has Kyrie Irving trended upward? He really hasn't, has been in the league 5 years, and is almost identical in terms of IQ and effort since his rookie season.

He is what he is and if playing alongside LeBron James doesn't give you the swift kick in the ass to improve in other aspects of the game then you are essentially never going to be a type A player.

This guy has the opportunity to take his brand to next level status with a championship and his body language indicates he really doesn't want to work at his craft if he really doesn't have to. It's been a problem, is a problem, and will be a problem in the future because there is no sign that he has taken any steps toward bettering himself with basic functions of basketball.

Well, I said he has more upside on this team going forward than Love. I'm not really sure why you'd disagree with that, but okay.

Kyrie is playing at a lower ceiling than he is last year. So is Kevin, but Kevin's ceiling was never as high here as Kyrie's anyways...

Both are flawed, but which one has the higher ceiling on this team going forward? I think its Kyrie, and not really that debatable.

 

[JSS2306]

Well, I said he has more upside on this team going forward than Love. I'm not really sure why you'd disagree with that, but okay.

Kyrie is playing at a lower ceiling than he is last year. So is Kevin, but Kevin's ceiling was never as high here as Kyrie's anyways...

Both are flawed, but which one has the higher ceiling on this team going forward? I think its Kyrie, and not really that debatable.

So Kyrie has regressed but he has more upside? Upside down maybe.

Yeah, it's debatable and I'd rather have a guy who can rebound and spread the floor than a guy who devalues both sides of the floor by playing very poor defense and kills offensive chemistry.

It's interesting to note that the Kyrie Irving's Bed Bugs Fan Club are now here debating who they would rather trade.

A week ago they were ganging up on folks and telling everyone Kyrie was gunning for Steph Curry's throne.

I feel that both Kevin Love and Kyrie Irving need to be dealt if a championship hasn't been won. They have both displayed less than championship level hearts throughout their time in Cleveland.

 

[godfather]

So Kyrie has regressed but he has more upside? Upside down maybe.

Yeah, it's debatable and I'd rather have a guy who can rebound and spread the floor than a guy who devalues both sides of the floor by playing very poor defense and kills offensive chemistry.

It's interesting to note that the Kyrie Irving's Bed Bugs Fan Club are now here debating who they would rather trade.

A week ago they were ganging up on folks and telling everyone Kyrie was gunning for Steph Curry's throne.

I feel that both Kevin Love and Kyrie Irving need to be dealt if a championship hasn't been won. They have both displayed less than championship level hearts throughout their time in Cleveland.

Dude, you are the poster boy of black and white debates on here. You don't even know how to find a middle ground at all.

Did Kyrie kill our offensive chemistry last year, when we went a stretch of 30-3, and had a helping hand in getting us to the finals?

You totally block out anything he's ever done well, that's why its impossible to have any reasonable debate with you on this subject.

You'll forever be in the category that Kyrie is damaged goods with no upside at all going forward.

So, not surprising you find him completely useless.

 

[mhi]

The disconnect between LeBron James and Kyrie Irving is real, according to several scouts and coaches.

One scout who saw the Cleveland Cavaliers play recently called the on-court chemistry between James and Irving as “basically nonexistent.”

Team sources insist James and Irving have a solid relationship. James is reportedly attempting to raise the basketball IQ of Irving and nobody is working harder than James on getting the two of them on the same page.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/cavali...t-of-time-to-figure-things-out-144215880.html


In case anyone hasn't read it. We can't have nice things.

 

[Kizzle]

The disconnect between LeBron James and Kyrie Irving is real, according to several scouts and coaches.

One scout who saw the Cleveland Cavaliers play recently called the on-court chemistry between James and Irving as “basically nonexistent.”

Team sources insist James and Irving have a solid relationship. James is reportedly attempting to raise the basketball IQ of Irving and nobody is working harder than James on getting the two of them on the same page.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/cavali...t-of-time-to-figure-things-out-144215880.html


In case anyone hasn't read it. We can't have nice things.

Who wrote that shit

He basically reports some shit then IMMEADIATLY discounts it



Anyone can write these days

 

[Ohio]

Scouts and coaches of other teams...

 

[CosmoKramer]

Who wrote that shit

He basically reports some shit then IMMEADIATLY discounts it



Anyone can write these days

Apparently not many can spell though.

 

[Jscc]

Scouts and coaches of other teams...

No doubt Toronto, Boston, and Chicago scouts and coaches.

 

[Ohio]

No doubt Toronto, Boston, and Chicago scouts and coaches.

Reminds me of the "Western Conference GMs" (aka Lakers) talking about Love last year.

 

[Redzone]

Sheesh, guys. Before we talk about breaking this team up, know that we have the talent to beat Golden State. All we need do is 1) have guys play to their full potential; 2) play as a team; and 3) stay healthy.

We have seen all three at times, and sometimes together. We know (or should know), that when this team is firing on all cylinders, they can beat anyone. We saw this same team minus some parts sweep the east last year despite not getting home court. This team is deeper and is now coached by someone who won rings--and played with Kobe and Jordan--and coached with a head coach who won a ring. He knows something.

Heck, the world champion Denver Broncos played to a tie with the Browns this past year after four quarters, so lapses happen. Just don't panic when things go a bit awry during a long season.

Monday's game was terrible; we've seen others like it. But we've seen other games that show greatness.

Let's see what happens in the playoffs, for which this team is built. I can't stress this enough. This team is not overly concerned with killing themselves when they are bored, have lots of away games and back to backs just to get one extra playoff game when they could once again sweep the east. Maybe they won't, but I don't see any team but one who could beat us 4 times our of 7 when we have LeBron.

If they fall in the playoffs, trades will be considered--but only for other all stars in their prime locked up for years--not role players. Kevin and Kyrie are all star talent locked up for years. They are quite valuable. Teams just don't trade these kinds of players, so, trading just to trade makes no sense, especially make such suggestions before the playoffs even occur.