Let’s Talk About Screening

[All4One1ForAll]

Imo screens are the biggest problem for us this season. More than the lack of shooting or the defensive rebounding or even the questionable shot creation on the wing.

None of our players outside of Ed Davis can set a screen to save their lives, and it makes things so much more difficult than they need to be for this team offensively. Rubio and Garland need to put so much effort into dribbling and breaking down the defense because they have no daylight after initiating the PnR. It’s such a difference when you see GS getting Steph open with their physical and oftentimes even illegal screens versus when our boys like Mobley and Allen set screens that don’t even make contact or come in the form of a slip screen instead. Watching the game the other day though, I thought to myself that 190 lb Steph honestly sets better screens than our entire team. I definitely think it’s valid to get on the refs for a lot of those screens Draymond, Looney, and co were setting. But man, there’s no reason an opposing small PG should be brick walling our defenders with screens better than even our bigs, as skinny as they may be.

Offensively, I think the load that Rubio and Garland have to carry considering the fact that we have no viable wing creators and Okoro is out there shrinking the floor (and recently not to mention our bigs are now out) is made significantly more intense by the fact that our team isn’t screening for them properly and they’re forced to essentially ISO more than they should. It leads to them turning it over more than you’d expect of them because the defense isn’t in as vulnerable of a position as they should be after the PnR and can collapse on our ball handlers. It leads to tired legs for Rubio and DG, which is why you’ve oftentimes deemed them struggle to put together two good halves imo. Lots of times they’ll play really well in one and then fall off in the other. And finally it’s a reason why Garland isn’t getting up as many three point attempts on the ball as we’d like imo.

Now it’s also an issue defensively. We have dudes who really seem to struggle to fight through screens. Garland and Okoro are probably the worst in that area. Sexton’s also bad but I think he showed improvement this season. Mobley and Allen also can get stuck on screens set by stronger players, but fortunately they have the length to be able to recover really well. Our guards don’t have that same luxury. Steph was getting absolutely WIDE OPEN catch and shoot looks late in the 4th because we just could not handle their screens. And again, I’m aware they were setting a lot of stuff that absolutely should have been called by the refs, so definitely can’t ignore that. But it’s so weird to see someone as compact and strong as Okoro just dying on screens and not able to navigate around them at all when he was trying to guard Steph, leading to him getting burned on like 15 straight possessions. Garland’s smaller so it’s more understandable but I think he can do a better job of recognizing when the screen is coming and not running straight into them, and even using physicality back to get through.

I think fixing just this issue would make such a huge difference for this team on both ends. We’re pretty clearly the worst screening team in the league right now and we can’t handle screens from the opposing team either. In your guys’ opinion is it mainly a strength issue for our players? An issue of guys being young and something they’ll learn with more experience later on? Or a coaching problem?

 

[Ohioplayer00]

The Cavs haven’t had a big man who knows how to set a good solid pick since Varijeo!

 

[Kouki]

One simple answer is that most teams use illegal screens and we do not.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

One simple answer is that most teams use illegal screens and we do not.

Perhaps -- but we still suck at setting even legal screens.

 

[CavsKermit]

Meh, K. love can set a good pick. The Cavs problem is that 4/5th of their starting lineup isn't on the court, and on top of it, Cedi was out the last game as well. My concern is that Rubio is playing unsustainable minutes for his age, and if we don't start getting the younger bodies back on the court so he doesn't have to, he could get injured as well. I like that the Cavs are playing hard every game, but they have a short-term, medium-term decision to make on how long they leave Rubio out there.

 

[Randolphkeys]

I definitely think it’s valid to get on the refs for a lot of those screens Draymond, Looney, and co were setting. But man, there’s no reason an opposing small PG should be brick walling our defenders with screens better than even our bigs, as skinny as they may be.

I'm glad it's the Warriors game that set off this topic. Last season, the Warriors were trying to integrate James Wiseman and Kelly Oubre. They both have skill, but the Warriors were tremendously beatable.

Wiseman gets hurt, and Looney gets his minutes... suddenly the Warriors become a Western Conference team nobody wanted in the playoffs. Why? Physicality in screens and defense. When Draymond is the only physical player, he wears down. The Warriors needed a few more hard-nosed players on the court.

The Cavs want Okoro to be that hard-nosed type player. He passes the eye test. Unfortunately, his defense was a little exposed when assigned Curry. He got caught looking for screens, and Curry blew past him.

I don't see Okoro as a lost cause, just a player who has his confidence shaken and needs to get it back. Jarrett Allen isn't a thumper, but he will bring a physical element back to the lineup.

 

[Heat Check]

Most young bigs are horrible screen setters when they come into the league. They're used to being the stars on their HS and college teams, so every screen is just an opportunity to slip and get the ball for a chance to dunk (or pop, in some cases). They're not patient because they've never had to be.

That said, using screens is a skill as well and not all ballhandlers can do it well.

 

[Dr No]

Most young bigs are horrible screen setters when they come into the league. They're used to being the stars on their HS and college teams, so every screen is just an opportunity to slip and get the ball for a chance to dunk (or pop, in some cases). They're not patient because they've never had to be.

That said, using screens is a skill as well and not all ballhandlers can do it well.

many people miss what you are pointing out. It takes both guys to make a screen effective. The screener can only do so much without getting called for it. It is up to the ballhandler to set up the screen, get his man caught on it, and then use it correctly.

 

[bigdog123]

One simple answer is that most teams use illegal screens and we do not.

If the refs don't call it, it is by definition, legal. Maybe our coaches need to teach our guys how to preform these "illegal" screens that don't get called.

 

[Cavatt]

Great thread.

 

[Kouki]

If the refs don't call it, it is by definition, legal. Maybe our coaches need to teach our guys how to preform these "illegal" screens that don't get called.

I mean this is kind of semantics but yes, illegal screens open up so much on offense so we should embrace the fact that they are not called like a lot of other teams do. Especially with the refs sealing their whistles this year and our team having a sort of scrappy, high effort reputation - that usually lets you get away with more.

Someone said Okoro chose the wrong sport and should have been a TE, well, let's see

 

[2 For The Brew]

If the refs don't call it, it is by definition, legal. Maybe our coaches need to teach our guys how to preform these "illegal" screens that don't get called.

It’s de facto vs de jure. How the refs call it does not change the written rules but of course how rules are enforced is more important than what the rules are.

The real problem is that certain players do technically illegal moves but don’t get called (usually veterans) but a younger player can do the exact same move and a foul is called. It’s been an issue in the NBA forever. Superstars often get the benefit and certain teams also seem to get the benefit.

There was a good discussion of this in the book “48 hours” by Terry Pluto and Bob Ryan. A rookie Cavs team battled the Celtics to OT. In the book it’s mentioned that refs have to “learn” a rookie’s moves and until they do they tend to get fouls called more than veteran players.

 

[DirtyDan]

It’s de facto vs de jure. How the refs call it does not change the written rules but of course how rules are enforced is more important than what the rules are.

The real problem is that certain players do technically illegal moves but don’t get called (usually veterans) but a younger player can do the exact same move and a foul is called. It’s been an issue in the NBA forever. Superstars often get the benefit and certain teams also seem to get the benefit.

There was a good discussion of this in the book “48 hours” by Terry Pluto and Bob Ryan. A rookie Cavs team battled the Celtics to OT. In the book it’s mentioned that refs have to “learn” a rookie’s moves and until they do they tend to get fouls called more than veteran players.

I remember Kobe talking about how he knew every blindspot for referees and would use that to his advantage. Manipulating the refs eyes and being discrete about fouling is a skill in itself. I can see why a young team really doesn't know how to take advantage of this.

Edit:

 

[Randolphkeys]

I remember Kobe talking about how he knew every blindspot for referees and would use that to his advantage. Manipulating the refs eyes and being discrete about fouling is a skill in itself. I can see why a young team really doesn't know how to take advantage of this.

The answer here is obvious... bring Vitaly Potapenko back as assistant coach of the Dark Arts of basketball. He's on the Memphis coaching staff, but we need him back. A roster full of bigs need the Ukranian hit man working with them.

 

[rastamon87]

The answer here is obvious... bring Vitaly Potapenko back as assistant coach of the Dark Arts of basketball. He's on the Memphis coaching staff, but we need him back. A roster full of bigs need the Ukranian hit man working with them.

They all gonna be big v drinkers after a season with him, lol... Did Vitaly spent time with Kemp in Cleveland? Can't remember