Let it all out. The Cavaliers Rant Thread

[Kizzle]

Our coach is not intelligent/smart enough or creative enough to create a ball movement/man movement team oriented motion offense, putting our style of play solely on LeBron saying he brain washed Lue is unfair imo

Do you think Brad Stevens would have us playing this way too? or would he actually teach the players how to play team basketball & play high level defense?

Give Lue the roster Stevens has now I’m not sure he makes the playoffs let alone win a playoff series, he rode LeBron and Kyrie for a giant contract and he continues to ride LeBron like no othe coach has ever rode him.

Stevens has good smart ideas. Players would be more willing to listen to him especially after they saw results


I personally do think Stevens would be able to coach this roster

 

[inliner311]

Naw

The reason they beat us was because we have a shitty offense and defense



We beat 3/4 of those all stars 2 years ago and took 3/4 of those all stars to 6 games the year before that without Kyrie and Love.

Last year we operated under the idea that defnese didn’t matter and ran a shitty isolation offense that only worked because we had Kyrie AND LeBron. This year Lue’s trash ass kept the same exact offense and the only tweak he made was feeding Love more.

A monumental change like losing Kyrie should’ve led to a monumental change in our offense from isolation ball into a ball movement everybody touched it offense. But nope LeBron has Lue brainwashed into caring about his legacy so now Lue plays him 40 mins a game so he can brag about playing the most mins and he allows him to run Bron ball 90% of games which pisses off his younger teammates such as Hood, Crowder and Clarkson to the point they mentally check out because sitting and watching LeBron do everything is fun when you win but brutal in losses because everyone blames the role players for not helping even tho they are touching the ball maybe once every 6 times down the court because of LeBron. That wears on you when you look at Golden States offense that has more stars but manages to be even less selfish.

When you take off the fan blinders and think about it you realize THIS is the LeBron effect. Young players graveyard. He opts for vet teams because older players are just happy to be along for the ride. Younger players older than say rookies want to be more part of the offense and Bron knows that he’s gonna hog the ball so he’s smart enough to avoid that conflict from the jump. THAT is why Wiggins had to be traded. Not because Bron loves Kevin Love but because he knew Wiggins would not improve one bit playing with him. That’s why Waiters had to leave. Because he wanted to be the guy with Kyrie and Bron knew it wouldn’t work. And this is why we will NOT draft an aggressive point guard if we pick top 7. We’ll probably go for Trae Young and if he’s not available we will go center. Because LeBron does not want to share responsibility no matter how much he tells his people to leak to the media that he wants to play off ball. If he really wanted to play off ball he’d do it here. George Hill can run an offense he’s done it on 3 damn teams


I love LeBron but man i can’t act blind to his personality. Even feeling this way I’d do it all again. I’d draft him in the same spot and everything. Only change I’d make is i would’ve got him a better coach in his first stint so he didn’t get so used to winning his way because now he basically has us by the balls because he’s brought so much success and we can’t fire back at him with anything because all the coaches we’ve given him have been trash

Blatt is gone because he didn't put his ego aside from euro league basketball and realize he was now coaching on a whole different level. He didn't buy into the idea that the NBA was the highest level of basketball and the players knew that. He brought up winning in Europe all the time. The players hated him because of that.

While he brought up winning championships in europe, he didn't know the NBA game. Lue had to be in charge of timeouts because he didn't understand commerical timeouts and would burn them unnecessary.

I don't like Lue but I don't think Blatt would have been a better long term solution.

I just hope there is a good coach available when we will hopefully need one in the offseason. I hope Gilbert and Koby are back channeling with someone.

 

[Triple-S]

Stevens frustrates me because I think I'd rather see him coaching college ball at a school like IU or Purdue (If painter ever left) than that stupid franchise out east.

I'm tired of Boston stumbling onto nice things. I was hoping after Garnett, Pierce and co left? We'd be done with them and their stupid fanbase. Nope.

 

[Huber.]

Stevens frustrates me because I think I'd rather see him coaching college ball at a school like IU or Purdue (If painter ever left) than that stupid franchise out east.

I'm tired of Boston stumbling onto nice things. I was hoping after Garnett, Pierce and co left? We'd be done with them and their stupid fanbase. Nope.

Boston has 17 championships and 21 conference championships. That's like wishing the Yankees would become yearly bottom feeders after the Jeter years. I'm afraid we are stuck with them.

 

[Mavaliersfan]

Naw

The reason they beat us was because we have a shitty offense and defense



We beat 3/4 of those all stars 2 years ago and took 3/4 of those all stars to 6 games the year before that without Kyrie and Love.

Last year we operated under the idea that defnese didn’t matter and ran a shitty isolation offense that only worked because we had Kyrie AND LeBron. This year Lue’s trash ass kept the same exact offense and the only tweak he made was feeding Love more.

A monumental change like losing Kyrie should’ve led to a monumental change in our offense from isolation ball into a ball movement everybody touched it offense. But nope LeBron has Lue brainwashed into caring about his legacy so now Lue plays him 40 mins a game so he can brag about playing the most mins and he allows him to run Bron ball 90% of games which pisses off his younger teammates such as Hood, Crowder and Clarkson to the point they mentally check out because sitting and watching LeBron do everything is fun when you win but brutal in losses because everyone blames the role players for not helping even tho they are touching the ball maybe once every 6 times down the court because of LeBron. That wears on you when you look at Golden States offense that has more stars but manages to be even less selfish.

When you take off the fan blinders and think about it you realize THIS is the LeBron effect. Young players graveyard. He opts for vet teams because older players are just happy to be along for the ride. Younger players older than say rookies want to be more part of the offense and Bron knows that he’s gonna hog the ball so he’s smart enough to avoid that conflict from the jump. THAT is why Wiggins had to be traded. Not because Bron loves Kevin Love but because he knew Wiggins would not improve one bit playing with him. That’s why Waiters had to leave. Because he wanted to be the guy with Kyrie and Bron knew it wouldn’t work. And this is why we will NOT draft an aggressive point guard if we pick top 7. We’ll probably go for Trae Young and if he’s not available we will go center. Because LeBron does not want to share responsibility no matter how much he tells his people to leak to the media that he wants to play off ball. If he really wanted to play off ball he’d do it here. George Hill can run an offense he’s done it on 3 damn teams


I love LeBron but man i can’t act blind to his personality. Even feeling this way I’d do it all again. I’d draft him in the same spot and everything. Only change I’d make is i would’ve got him a better coach in his first stint so he didn’t get so used to winning his way because now he basically has us by the balls because he’s brought so much success and we can’t fire back at him with anything because all the coaches we’ve given him have been trash

Exactly! Great post!

 

[Triple-S]

Boston has 17 championships and 21 conference championships. That's like wishing the Yankees would become yearly bottom feeders after the Jeter years. I'm afraid we are stuck with them.

This is why I posted about this in another thread.

The fact that the Cavs have even ONE TITLE, and multiple Finals appearances in a minor miracle.

Because the Lakers have 16 Championships, 31 conference titles.
And the Cetics have 17 Championships, 21 conference titles.

That's an INSANE lack of parity.

That is also why I laughed at the Celtics fans, media going "FINALLY! THE NIGHTMARE IS OVAH!" melodrama when those three goons won a title.

I think the Yankees are easier to stomach as world champions because they're actually really chill people. Boston and Philly fans have this weird complex to them.

 

[mAo_mAo]

I am just pissed at our damn poor drafting when LeBron left. We were probably the first to do the "Process" before Philly with boat loads of top 5 picks for 4 consecutive years. If my memory serves me right, we had 5 picks in the top 5- 3 number one picks and 2 4th overall.

From among those picks along with some mid and late first roundesr we managed to hit on only one in Kyrie. If we had only picked 2 or 3 more stars from those picks we would not be talking about the fucking Warriors right now and the franchise would be looking at a decade long dominance.

 

[cavsfever]

Naw

The reason they beat us was because we have a shitty offense and defense



We beat 3/4 of those all stars 2 years ago and took 3/4 of those all stars to 6 games the year before that without Kyrie and Love.

Last year we operated under the idea that defnese didn’t matter and ran a shitty isolation offense that only worked because we had Kyrie AND LeBron. This year Lue’s trash ass kept the same exact offense and the only tweak he made was feeding Love more.

A monumental change like losing Kyrie should’ve led to a monumental change in our offense from isolation ball into a ball movement everybody touched it offense. But nope LeBron has Lue brainwashed into caring about his legacy so now Lue plays him 40 mins a game so he can brag about playing the most mins and he allows him to run Bron ball 90% of games which pisses off his younger teammates such as Hood, Crowder and Clarkson to the point they mentally check out because sitting and watching LeBron do everything is fun when you win but brutal in losses because everyone blames the role players for not helping even tho they are touching the ball maybe once every 6 times down the court because of LeBron. That wears on you when you look at Golden States offense that has more stars but manages to be even less selfish.

When you take off the fan blinders and think about it you realize THIS is the LeBron effect. Young players graveyard. He opts for vet teams because older players are just happy to be along for the ride. Younger players older than say rookies want to be more part of the offense and Bron knows that he’s gonna hog the ball so he’s smart enough to avoid that conflict from the jump. THAT is why Wiggins had to be traded. Not because Bron loves Kevin Love but because he knew Wiggins would not improve one bit playing with him. That’s why Waiters had to leave. Because he wanted to be the guy with Kyrie and Bron knew it wouldn’t work. And this is why we will NOT draft an aggressive point guard if we pick top 7. We’ll probably go for Trae Young and if he’s not available we will go center. Because LeBron does not want to share responsibility no matter how much he tells his people to leak to the media that he wants to play off ball. If he really wanted to play off ball he’d do it here. George Hill can run an offense he’s done it on 3 damn teams


I love LeBron but man i can’t act blind to his personality. Even feeling this way I’d do it all again. I’d draft him in the same spot and everything. Only change I’d make is i would’ve got him a better coach in his first stint so he didn’t get so used to winning his way because now he basically has us by the balls because he’s brought so much success and we can’t fire back at him with anything because all the coaches we’ve given him have been trash

Ummm, no. Kyrie improved playing with Lebron (and Lebron let him be ball-dominant, to the point of having a higher usage rating than LBJ his last year with us). Delly improved and Lebron was willing to play off ball with him -- if he'll do it for Delly he'll do it for anyone. Cedi would improve if we played him. In Miami, Lebron was even able to make Mario Chalmers look like an NBA player, which he instantly stopped doing when Lebron left. Back in the day Lebron developed Varejao, Boobie Gibson, and other players who wouldn't have had much of a career without him.

There are two big reasons it might appear that Lebron doesn't develop young players. First, he has been the most unlucky superstar in NBA history in terms of the rosters put around him -- he's either been victimized by the crap Cleveland front office and our terrible inability to build good teams with him, or he was on the Heat who had totally cleaned out their $$$ getting the big three. Second, he goes to the Finals every damn year and it's hard to develop young players when you're doing that.

If you think we have some great playoff team based on ball movement if Lebron and Kyrie weren't on the floor, ask yourself what that team would look like. At what point have this version of the Lebron Cavs had a secondary creator who could reliably function without either Lebron or Kyrie on the floor? Without Lebron our starting lineup on this year's squad would be:

PG George Hill
SG: Smith, Clarkson, or Korver
SF: Cedi Osman or Kyle Korver
PF: Kevin Love
Center: TT or Nance

On what planet does that team even make the playoffs?

Lebron has been cursed with having to deal with a Cleveland front office that wastes resources recklessly and has no idea how to spot or evaluate talent.

 

[Kizzle]

Ummm, no. Kyrie improved playing with Lebron (and Lebron let him be ball-dominant, to the point of having a higher usage rating than LBJ his last year with us). Delly improved and Lebron was willing to play off ball with him -- if he'll do it for Delly he'll do it for anyone. Cedi would improve if we played him. In Miami, Lebron was even able to make Mario Chalmers look like an NBA player, which he instantly stopped doing when Lebron left. Back in the day Lebron developed Varejao, Boobie Gibson, and other players who wouldn't have had much of a career without him.

There are two big reasons it might appear that Lebron doesn't develop young players. First, he has been the most unlucky superstar in NBA history in terms of the rosters put around him -- he's either been victimized by the crap Cleveland front office and our terrible inability to build good teams with him, or he was on the Heat who had totally cleaned out their $$$ getting the big three. Second, he goes to the Finals every damn year and it's hard to develop young players when you're doing that.

If you think we have some great playoff team based on ball movement if Lebron and Kyrie weren't on the floor, ask yourself what that team would look like. At what point have this version of the Lebron Cavs had a secondary creator who could reliably function without either Lebron or Kyrie on the floor? Without Lebron our starting lineup on this squad would be:

PG George Hill
SG: Smith, Clarkson, or Korver
SF: Cedi Osman or Kyle Korver
PF: Kevin Love
Center: TT or Nance

On what planet does that team even make the playoffs?

Lebron has been cursed with having to deal with a Cleveland front office that wastes resources recklessly and has no idea how to spot or evaluate talent.

Give Stevens that roster in today’s east and thats a playoff team. And that’s what I’m saying


ALL LeBron teams have the same issue after a while. Players who are actually pretty versatile are relegated into spot up shooters then get the full blame when LeBron gets his 40 and still lose. That’s bad coaching but it’s just the LeBron effect as well. LeBron just doesn’t have any interest in an offense or a team not built at least mostly around him. He stomached playing with Wade because he was the alpha and the world saw it as such.


Also i can’t even say Kyrie improves under Bron because i truely believe Kyrie is a superstar and was gonna improve individually even if he played with straight shit

 

[cavsfever]

Give Stevens that roster in today’s east and thats a playoff team. And that’s what I’m saying

you must be kidding. Stevens is a good coach and all, he performed miracles with IT, Crowder, etc., but no fucking way that roster beats out the Wizards, Bucks, or Heat.

 

[Dr. Claw]

When you take off the fan blinders and think about it you realize THIS is the LeBron effect. Young players graveyard. He opts for vet teams because older players are just happy to be along for the ride. Younger players older than say rookies want to be more part of the offense and Bron knows that he’s gonna hog the ball so he’s smart enough to avoid that conflict from the jump. THAT is why Wiggins had to be traded. Not because Bron loves Kevin Love but because he knew Wiggins would not improve one bit playing with him. That’s why Waiters had to leave. Because he wanted to be the guy with Kyrie and Bron knew it wouldn’t work. And this is why we will NOT draft an aggressive point guard if we pick top 7. We’ll probably go for Trae Young and if he’s not available we will go center. Because LeBron does not want to share responsibility no matter how much he tells his people to leak to the media that he wants to play off ball. If he really wanted to play off ball he’d do it here. George Hill can run an offense he’s done it on 3 damn teams


I love LeBron but man i can’t act blind to his personality. Even feeling this way I’d do it all again. I’d draft him in the same spot and everything. Only change I’d make is i would’ve got him a better coach in his first stint so he didn’t get so used to winning his way because now he basically has us by the balls because he’s brought so much success and we can’t fire back at him with anything because all the coaches we’ve given him have been trash

This is exactly how I feel. Mike Brown on paper wasn't a bad idea, but he really wasn't the guy to help improve LeBron. Spoelstra was and is superior. The Heat should have made the playoffs last season (over the Bulls(hit)). They made it this year with all of their issues and put up a good fight against Philly.

It was a good thing Kyrie is one of the best guards to ever play the game, else he would have been gone before the title. And even that wasn't enough to save him.

LeBron has to realize that he's got a role in the failure as well. He can't keep signing one-year deals to keep an already suspect front offices on their toes. He won't be able to get a max contract and still field a team that can win a title with teams like Golden Shower and now Boston in the mix. I dunno man. All the things that his haters used to say early in his career are rearing their ugly head now.

 

[Cavatt]

Blatt is gone because he didn't put his ego aside from euro league basketball and realize he was now coaching on a whole different level. He didn't buy into the idea that the NBA was the highest level of basketball and the players knew that. He brought up winning in Europe all the time. The players hated him because of that.

While he brought up winning championships in europe, he didn't know the NBA game. Lue had to be in charge of timeouts because he didn't understand commerical timeouts and would burn them unnecessary.

I don't like Lue but I don't think Blatt would have been a better long term solution.

I just hope there is a good coach available when we will hopefully need one in the offseason. I hope Gilbert and Koby are back channeling with someone.

Kyrie is gone because Blatt is gone and he thought Lue was a dummy. He liked Blatt

 

[inliner311]

Kyrie is gone because Blatt is gone and he thought Lue was a dummy. He liked Blatt

I believe Kyrie is gone because of Lue but I don't believe he fully bought in to Blatt especially once LeBron and the other vets who had championship experience got here. Who would you listen to a bunch of vet players who had won NBA championships or a head coach who even in the NBA finals was still talking about his euro league championships?

I do think Blatt is a better coach but he burnt the bridge to the players the moment he made that speach about how he has won before when they wanted to give him the game ball from his first NBA win.

I fully want a new coach next season. I stopped thinking about Blatt the moment we won the Championship in 2016. It was one of the moves that got us to win. I won't trade that for the possibility of being better than Lue right now. Get me a coach that is better than Blatt, Lue, Mike Brown, Byron Scott, etc.

 

[Cavatt]

I believe Kyrie is gone because of Lue but I don't believe he fully bought in to Blatt especially once LeBron and the other vets who had championship experience got here. Who would you listen to a bunch of vet players who had won NBA championships or a head coach who even in the NBA finals was still talking about his euro league championships?

I do think Blatt is a better coach but he burnt the bridge to the players the moment he made that speach about how he has won before when they wanted to give him the game ball from his first NBA win.

I fully want a new coach next season. I stopped thinking about Blatt the moment we won the Championship in 2016. It was one of the moves that got us to win. I won't trade that for the possibility of being better than Lue right now. Get me a coach that is better than Blatt, Lue, Mike Brown, Byron Scott, etc.

That's cool. Who is that coach? Most of them are not great. There are like 5 coaches I like and they all have jobs

 

[inliner311]

That's cool. Who is that coach? Most of them are not great. There are like 5 coaches I like and they all have jobs

I think Mike Budenholzer is who I'd go after. I want to see what he can do with some actual top level talent.