Matthew Dellavedova

[SanduskyCav]

I don't know where to go or find it, but can someone post Delly's shooting stats and +\- with LeBron off the court?

 

[Bballguy4]

JR Smith shrunk in the Finals. Channing Frye shrunk in the FInals. Iman Shumpert shrunk in the Finals.

We getting rid of everyone, or can we open our eyes and admit the rest of the season does actually matter?

Jr Smith was solid in the finals but I agree with you on Iman. Basically, you can't play Delly vs the warriors unless he was guarding Curry because all the tall guards on the Warriors would take him into the post and abuse him.

 

[The Oi]

Well, with Mo breaking down, Felder not looking ready and Wade not being willing to play for peanuts this is looking mystifying.

What were the Cavs doing here?

 

[Biw]

Well, with Mo breaking down, Felder not looking ready and Wade not being willing to play for peanuts this is looking mystifying.

What were the Cavs doing here?

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXE_n2q08Yw

 

[Rich]

But Delly won't cost the Cavaliers $9.5mil / year. Unlike Milwaukee, Cleveland is well into the luxury tax.

Let's look at this past year. Cleveland was in the 3.75 luxury tax bracket and paid $54mil in luxury tax. Our last significant move was trading Andy and Cunningham for Frye. That move saved us about $2.5Mil in salary. But it also saved (3.75 * /$2.5Mil) = 9.375 in luxury tax.

In other words, Griffin improved the team on the floor and improved net cash for Dan & partners by $11,875,000. I don't care how rich Gilbert is, that's serious money.

We are likely to be in a least the 3.50 luxury tax bracket this upcoming year, if not higher. Delly is $9.6; Dunleavy (for example) is $4,837,500. The difference is $4,762,500 -- times 4.50 (1 for the salary, 3.50 for the tax) = $21,431,250. That's how much Delly would cost over Dunleavy, for example. If we take Delly versus his salary last year ($1,147,280) it will cost the owners ($9,600,000 - $1,147,280) * 4.50 = $38,037,240 additional money for Delly!!

The reason all this extra tax is for Delly's contract is that he is the marginal contract. The contracts that are guaranteed, plus LeBron and JR, are set. The decision for the Cavaliers was whether or not to keep Delly. The above analysis shows that it is ridiculously uneconomic to keep him. Total cost of Delly for this upcoming season is $9,600,000 for Milwaukee and 4.50 times that or $43,200,000 for Delly. If the tax rate is 3.75, that increases to $45,600,000. FOR DELLY!!!

No sane person would spend that for him. Every GM and Front Office can do salary cap math, so they knew Delly would be gone.

Just for fun, if we kept Mozgov, he would have driven the team into an even higher tax bracket. $16,000,000 times 5.25 (4.25 average marginal tax bracket + 1.00 salary) = $84,000,000.

Plus with the repeater tax, that adds 1.00 to all multipliers (i.e. 3.50 becomes 4.50).

Of course, people are free to say that Gilbert should just keep those "assets" Delly and Mozgov and fork over an additional $130,000,000 or so for those two players. (Actually it would be higher as tax rate goes up 0.50 for every $5,000,000 in salary over the cap).

They both had to go, and it's because of the money.

http://allball.blogs.nba.com/2016/07/07/curry-cavaliers-top-nba-merchandise-list/

http://money.cnn.com/2016/06/22/news/nba-cavaliers-merchandise-sales/

http://www.crainscleveland.com/arti...ss-cavs-season-tickets-will-go-up-about-15-in


As Dan Gilbert rakes in the extra money from a title, not including the increase he'll see in the franchise's value, you'll still be arguing on his behalf about paying a bill for a tax that he helped, more than any other owner, create.

I don't get it.

My man is strolling to the bank and the fans are arguing he shouldn't be expected to keep a young, 25 minute a night player,on a decent contract,with no way to replace him, because the tax he helped create is too severe?

When Forbes' list comes out later in the year and the Cavaliers franchise value has increased by over 100 million, I'll be back here to ask, again, why Dan should be defended in this decision.

No sane person would spend that for him. Every GM and Front Office can do salary cap math, so they knew Delly would be gone

I don't know how you square that away with the addition of Dunleavy. Would a sane person spend 21 million dollars on a 35 year old Mike Dunleavy coming off of a back injury?

I feel like if Dunleavy were on this team last year and would have been jettisoned this year, you'd be making this exact argument, that no sane person would ever think about paying 21 million dollars for Mike Dunleavy.

 

[Snarly]

Well, with Mo breaking down, Felder not looking ready and Wade not being willing to play for peanuts this is looking mystifying.

What were the Cavs doing here?

All I know is Lawson, Chalmers, and Cole are all out there but we have no money to offer them so any way to get one of them?

 

[Pioneer10]

I'd take a risk on Lawson at this point. He's an All Star caliber talent who if he can get over his demons is easily the most talented guy out there and the one guy who can actually make us better then last year.

Certainly a risk and the fact no one is even taking a sniff at him is an indictment that they think his personal demons are getting the best out of him but we're the one team that could maybe make it work

 

[iWx]

http://allball.blogs.nba.com/2016/07/07/curry-cavaliers-top-nba-merchandise-list/

http://money.cnn.com/2016/06/22/news/nba-cavaliers-merchandise-sales/

http://www.crainscleveland.com/arti...ss-cavs-season-tickets-will-go-up-about-15-in


As Dan Gilbert rakes in the extra money from a title, not including the increase he'll see in the franchise's value, you'll still be arguing on his behalf about paying a bill for a tax that he helped, more than any other owner, create.

I don't get it.

My man is strolling to the bank and the fans are arguing he shouldn't be expected to keep a young, 25 minute a night player,on a decent contract,with no way to replace him, because the tax he helped create is too severe?

When Forbes' list comes out later in the year and the Cavaliers franchise value has increased by over 100 million, I'll be back here to ask, again, why Dan should be defended in this decision.

Gilbert spent more than any other team in NBA history and brought Cleveland a championship and you gonna stomp your feet because he didn't want to pay for a player who didn't even fit what his HC wanted to run?

No other owner in the NBA would have kept Delly in this situation and you gonna call out Gilbert for it? Hell if this was any other owner we wouldn't have Thompson or Jr Smith coming back. Cut the man some slack.

Who cares if the value of the team is goes up? What happens to that value if Lebron leaves? Value means nothing unless your selling.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

....because he didn't want to pay for a player who didn't even fit what his HC wanted to run?

This is really the big unknown. There were lots of rumors/hints that Delly was not playing much in the Finals because he was in pain and may need off-season surgery. But after the Finals, we didn't hear any more about that. So maybe Lue just doesn't like his game. And if not, then not keeping him is a much easier decision.

Hell if this was any other owner we wouldn't have Thompson or Jr Smith coming back. Cut the man some slack.

If you look at the decision to pay Delly this year in isolation from prior decisions, it is much easier to justify because of the tax implications. But consider that despite having every bit of leverage in the world over TT after he refused to sign the tender, Dan/Griff still decided to pay him almost as much as Draymond Green. Tax being paid on that contract affects the budget as well.

Then there is the Dan/Griff decision not to sign either JR or Delly to a cheaper, multiyear deal last year. Had we done so, not only would both of them be much more affordable, but we'd be able to trade either of them this year, under very attractive contracts.

So perhaps it isn't "fair" to blame them for this decision under these particular circumstances, but they are circumstances largely created by Dan/Griff, and frankly, circumstances that some of us were worried about last year during the Thompson negotiations.

 

[Hydroponic3385]

While I agree with what The Human Q Tip said, I also think it's important to point out that Gilbert & the Cavs have been way more willing to spend than any other organization the past few years. So while they are not perfect by any means, it's hard to blame them much at all. Yes they could've done better with the JR/Delly contracts (which likely resulted in losing out on Delly) but they're already out-doing their colleagues across the NBA in terms of willingness to spend (while still trying to be smart with how much $ they dole out).

 

[iWx]

I don't know how to use multiple quotes so sorry.

To the point about Delly/Lue. Just seems like every time Lue talks about what he wants out of his team it doesn't fit with the strengths of Delly. I do think Delly was banged up but to put Mo Williams over him was pretty telling to me. Now Delly is playing in the olympics so I don't think he could be that hurt IMO.

Hard to even complain about not getting good contracts last year for Delly/Smith. I mean no other owner even signs Delly/Smith what they could have been had last year. They probably would have been salary dumped.

Even if Thompson signs the tender and becomes a FA the following year no other owner was going to give him the contract he was going to get if they was the owner of the Cavs. So we wouldn't even have Thompson going into this year.

I am bummed out we are losing Delly but it is what it is.

I feel like some people just take for granted what Gilbert has done. I don't think we win a championship last year with any other owner in the NBA.

 

[Randolphkeys]

I don't know how to use multiple quotes so sorry.

To the point about Delly/Lue. Just seems like every time Lue talks about what he wants out of his team it doesn't fit with the strengths of Delly. I do think Delly was banged up but to put Mo Williams over him was pretty telling to me. Now Delly is playing in the olympics so I don't think he could be that hurt IMO.

Hard to even complain about not getting good contracts last year for Delly/Smith. I mean no other owner even signs Delly/Smith what they could have been had last year. They probably would have been salary dumped.

Even if Thompson signs the tender and becomes a FA the following year no other owner was going to give him the contract he was going to get if they was the owner of the Cavs. So we wouldn't even have Thompson going into this year.

I am bummed out we are losing Delly but it is what it is.

I feel like some people just take for granted what Gilbert has done. I don't think we win a championship last year with any other owner in the NBA.

Here's why I'm not in love with making up convenient narratives: What you are saying didn't actually happen. By the end of the playoffs, Delly was 7th overall in minutes played, ahead of Channing Frye and just behind Shumpert. When the Cavaliers dropped two games to Toronto, Dell was still getting almost twice as much playing time as Shump. Then Lue saw that Delly was struggling, both in mobility and his shot. At this point, Lue made Shump the 6th man and Delly was bumped to 8th in the rotation.

Against Golden State, Mo was given a shot in the last three games because even on one knee, Mo can stretch a defense with his range. At this point, Delly was also getting grabby on defense. It looked like he had trouble running through the picks, and picked up some fouls off the ball. Mo isn't quickeither, but at least he wasn't getting called for fouls.

So Mo ends the playoffs with one quarter of the playoff minutes played that Delly logged, but Lue never saw Delly as a match for his system? Sounds to me like Delly just wasn't healthy enough to do what he normally could do.

It's a convenient way to excuse Delly leaving, but it just didn't happen. Lue rode with Delly until Delly couldn't produce anymore. The last nine games don't equal the 40+ Lue coached.

It happens every playoff series to good players. Gotta go with the hot hand and the healthy legs.

 

[iWx]

Here's why I'm not in love with making up convenient narratives: What you are saying didn't actually happen. By the end of the playoffs, Delly was 7th overall in minutes played, ahead of Channing Frye and just behind Shumpert. When the Cavaliers dropped two games to Toronto, Dell was still getting almost twice as much playing time as Shump. Then Lue saw that Delly was struggling, both in mobility and his shot. At this point, Lue made Shump the 6th man and Delly was bumped to 8th in the rotation.

Against Golden State, Mo was given a shot in the last three games because even on one knee, Mo can stretch a defense with his range. At this point, Delly was also getting grabby on defense. It looked like he had trouble running through the picks, and picked up some fouls off the ball. Mo isn't quickeither, but at least he wasn't getting called for fouls.

So Mo ends the playoffs with one quarter of the playoff minutes played that Delly logged, but Lue never saw Delly as a match for his system? Sounds to me like Delly just wasn't healthy enough to do what he normally could do.

It's a convenient way to excuse Delly leaving, but it just didn't happen. Lue rode with Delly until Delly couldn't produce anymore. The last nine games don't equal the 40+ Lue coached.

It happens every playoff series to good players. Gotta go with the hot hand and the healthy legs.

While I love Mo Williams I would have took my chances of Delly in a wheel chair than to play Mo in this series. I about shit bricks when Mo was 1 on 1 with Livingston. I always try to read between the lines so sometimes I read into things more than what it really was. Could be the case here.

I am not down playing Delly's impact on this team or the drop of production we will have without him. Just pointing out the HC has a preference.

Seems like every interview I watch of Lue he is talking about pushing the pace. That is just something we can't do with Delly. There is a reason they paid 2.4 mill on a midget which has me nervous. I like Felder just not sure when he will be ready.

Just blows my mind some people attacking Gilbert for cutting cost on Delly when no other NBA owner would have brought him back if they had the Cavs payroll.

 

[Randolphkeys]

But there is no evidence of Lue believing Dellavedova cannot run his system. Simply none. You found quotes that Lue wanted to push the pace and none that say Delly can't play in his system. The minutes Lue played Delly really provide all the evidence necessary.

What you can find, absurdly easily for that matter, is Lue complimenting Delly's game constantly. Here's a few from the Golden State series when Delly was still in the rotation:

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/1...ists-matthew-dellavedova-aggressive-not-dirty

"Some other guys have been doing way worse things than Delly has," Lue told reporters on Saturday before the Cavaliers' shootaround at the Warriors' Oracle Arena in Oakland.

"I just see a guy who plays hard, who's tough, hard-nosed, and that's the way the game should be played.

"... I wouldn't say Delly was dirty."

Later in the same article:

Lue said one area Dellavedova needs to improve is not fall into the trap of speeding up his game when the Warriors put their taller guards, Iguodala and Shaun Livingston, on him.

"I told Delly, 'Just slow down. Run the offence'," Lue, a former NBA point guard, said.

"I know when bigger guys try to defend you, it's tough because I was a smaller guard and they put bigger guys on me."

So here is a quote from early June, before game 2, where Lue is suggesting a slower pace. After the Cavs were down 0-2, it's of course time to change the strategy. I'm in no way suggesting Lue is mistaken, we won the championship.

I do have to point out your logic makes a huge leap of logic without any proof. Excellent coaches know when to slow the pace or quicken the pace depending upon matchups, especially in the playoffs. One series is not the beginning and end of his philosophy.

 

[I'mWithDan]

I'd take a risk on Lawson at this point. He's an All Star caliber talent who if he can get over his demons is easily the most talented guy out there and the one guy who can actually make us better then last year.

Certainly a risk and the fact no one is even taking a sniff at him is an indictment that they think his personal demons are getting the best out of him but we're the one team that could maybe make it work

I think any of those guys are realistic, just based on pre-exisiting relationships. Obviously Cole and Chalmers via the Miami connection but Lawson is also close friends with Kyrie.

I know Lawson would like a starting PG job but I was reading an article post Finals and he mentioned that Kyrie was his closest friend in the NBA. I don't know where there ultimately crossed paths but I found it interesting. He was discussing the Finals and how he was really happy for him......although he said he was cheering against the Cavs because he wanted to win a title before KI.