My Offseason Plan with Cavs limited resources...

[czvo]

Kevin Love to BOS for Avery Bradley and Jae Crowder

Kyrie Irving to ATL for Paul Milsap

A week and a half ago, Kyrie Irving dropped 30-9 in a road closeout game to help this team reach the finals.

Now this board is trading him for Paul fucking Millsap.

 

[inliner311]

A starting lineup of:

Irving
Bradley
Crowder
LeBron
Tristan

is a better team offensively and defensively than what we are trotting out against Golden State right now. Crowder would be a great addition to SF and move LeBron to his proper position of PF on the court. To be fair, I'm probably open to about any idea that forced LeBron to PF.

And Avery Bradley is a fantastic defender and good catch and shoot offensive player. I actually like that trade a lot, and it makes JR/Shump expendable as well.

I actually see this making Delly more expendable than either JR or shump. Bradley is only 6'2. I think we would still need another SF or tall wing player to really compete with the warriors.

 

[billmac91]

Dude, Bledsoe has spent half of his career on the bench in a suit. I don't care about his playstyle or friendships. That's a monumental risk to take, not even considering the fact that Kyrie is a superior player. Just not worth it, not even close.

Bledsoe was 1 of 4 PG's in league averaging 20, 5, and 5...while being asked to defend opposing teams best offensive guard.

We're getting absolutely crushed on the boards by Golden State right now. Imagine trotting this lineup out against them....then imagine trotting it out against an actually good rebounding team. Golden State sweeps this roster.

We're getting crushed on the boards for multiple reasons, but one of the biggest is because our guards are terrible rebounders. Kyrie and JR don't like getting physical in the paint. It goes back to how "well-rounded" GS is vs our team which has guys who excel in specific areas but are not well rounded.

You know who are good rebounders from the guard position? Avery Bradley and Eric Bledsoe.

Russell Westbrook also attacked the hell out of the glass in the previous series. Tristan is actually doing his part and being active, it's Kevin Love being slow footed and having perimeter guys who want no part of getting their bodies bloodied.

I also don't like the assertion we'd get abused on the boards so we couldn't compete. If you plug Crowder and Bradley into our line-up we have 4 elite defenders on the court minus Kyrie who can switch at will and contest the perimeter. As it stands now, whoever Love guards exploits him and opens up shots at the rim or three point line because he is completely exposed.

There's a reason Richatd Jefferson is having success and very needed in this series. He's an underrated rebounder and wing defender. Jae Crowder is significantly better than RJ at this stage in his career.

Also, if you take Love off the court, you can actually use a true "big" next to LeBron. Part of the reason Moz is bench-riddled is because he can't play next to Kevin Love because it leaves your defense too exposed on the perimeter. TT is fleet footed enough to play next to Love.

Bottom line, is in today's NBA, and certainly in the playoffs where match-ups are exposed, Kevin Love just isn't a great fit at PF. The game has evolved to more skill and fluidity at that position and unless he has a big to match up on, he's not a great asset to have. Certainly not at his contract value.

 

[Ohio]

Bledsoe was 1 of 4 PG's in league averaging 20, 5, and 5...while being asked to defend opposing teams best offensive guard.

We'd need him for more than 30 regular season games.

 

[inliner311]

There's a reason Richatd Jefferson is having success and very needed in this series. He's an underrated rebounder and wing defender. Jae Crowder is significantly better than RJ at this stage in his career.

Also, if you take Love off the court, you can actually use a true "big" next to LeBron. Part of the reason Moz is bench-riddled is because he can't play next to Kevin Love because it leaves your defense too exposed on the perimeter. TT is fleet footed enough to play next to Love.

Bottom line, is in today's NBA, and certainly in the playoffs where match-ups are exposed, Kevin Love just isn't a great fit at PF. The game has evolved to more skill and fluidity at that position and unless he has a big to match up on, he's not a great asset to have. Certainly not at his contract value.

Crowder helps with solving the puzzle of their death lineup but isn't the full solution. RJ would still have to play. I don't know if Bradley helps because his lack of height and size are the same thing JR, Shump, and Delly all are dealing with. We need 4 or 5 guys that are SF size and length to deal with it. Crowder, RJ, LBJ give us 3, the other two players would get switch on constantly.

 

[fujikuro]

I'd just like to get back into the draft. The Cavs need some guys on this roster with some youth to them. Maybe the athletic defensive guy with a strong work ethic type. We've seen a number of those guys develop into pretty decent players of late.

 

[Stark]

I'm still bummed out that we missed out on Rondae Hollis-Jefferson.

 

[TheLand1287]

I'm still bummed out that we missed out on Rondae Hollis-Jefferson.

And I'm still bummed OKC lost after being up 3-1. There's probably not a single team in the NBA other than GS that the Cavs couldn't beat in a 7 game series, but yet people actually want to trade Irving and Love because of two bad games on the road against a 73-9 team. GS was a playoff team that couldn't make it out of the 1st/2nd round for a few years up until last year, and guess what, other than firing Mark Jackson for Steve Kerr they didn't do a single dramatic thing with their roster. I'm as embarrassed and pissed off as any other Cavs fan but this is ridiculous. Were back to the Love for role player trades? Kyrie for Bledsoe? LOL. How about we just continue to improve as a team with the players we have and hope things break right for us one of these years (like it did for GS last year with injuries) rather than continue to demolish and rebuild the roster every year or two when we do everything right but win the title.

 

[billmac91]

Interesting article from deadspin on Kyrie, and some statistical analysis in regards to the playoffs. The guy is just a really bad defender, and I'm not sure any team he plays on is capable of winning a championship when his defense is so bad...

I expect some roster changes next year....I'd put money on Love or Kyrie being traded because of how bad the defense is with both of them on the court. It just isn't possible to play championship level basketball when you have to hide two guys on the defensive end.



How Good Is Kyrie Irving, Really?

Kevin Draper
Today 1:35pm
Filed to: KYRIE IRVING
37.7K
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Photo via Christian Petersen/Getty
When the Cavaliers were struggling to close out the Toronto Raptors in the Eastern Conference Finals, ESPN’s Zach Lowe penned a column placing much of the blame on the Cavs’ defense, and in particular on Kyrie Irving and Kevin Love. As he criticized their efforts in the pick-and-roll, he threw in this aside about the 2015 Finals (emphasis mine):

Opponents know this stuff. They are putting Irving and Love into twice as many pick-and-rolls each game as they averaged in the regular-season, a massive jump out of proportion to the slight uptick in minutes the two are playing together. These are the sort of numbers that had members of the Golden State Warriors’ coaching staff quietly fretting when both Love and Irving missed last year’s NBA Finals, forcing the Cavs to play superior defenders in their place.

Love missed last year’s Finals because of a dislocated shoulder, and Irving fractured his kneecap in Game 1. Cleveland’s offense ground to a halt, but their suddenly stout defense made life hell for the Warriors for three games. But Golden State eventually broke through, War Boy Matthew Dellavedova went to the hospital with dehydration, and the Warriors won the series 4-2.

As the two teams’ rosters, especially at the top, are largely unchanged from last year, these repeat NBA Finals have been a litmus test for the Warriors’ coaching staff’s worry, and it sure seems like they were correct. At every opportunity the Warriors are putting Love and Irving into pick and rolls, and punishing them. And while Love has been bad, Irving has been downright atrocious.


According to FiveThirtyEight intern Kyle Wagner, Irving’s defense has gone from bad to nonexistent: he gave up an effective field goal percentage of 50.5 in the regular season, 59.2 in the playoffs, and 66.7 in Game 1. He was especially abused by Shaun Livingston in Game 1, and in Game 2 Draymond Green went off in part because Cavs defenders were helping off him to assist Irving.

The flip side here, of course, is that Irving has played like trash on offense too. He is a miserable 12 for 36 from the floor in the Finals, with more turnovers than assists. He repeatedly pounds the ball on possessions with one or zero passes, driving into the teeth of a prepared defense only to back out for a contested pull-up jumper. He’s a series low -36, and frankly it’s a surprise that number isn’t any lower.

I don’t want to overreact to a two-game sample, but Irving’s defense has been awful since he entered the league five seasons ago, and furthermore, no matter what advanced metric you look at, he grades out as good-but-not great. Despite this, he has a max contract, a signature shoe deal, three All-Star games, an appearance on the 2014 FIBA Basketball World Cup team, and all the other trappings associated with being one of the league’s superstars.

So, with two more days before Game 3, here are the big questions: Are the Cavs better without Kyrie Irving than with him, and is there anything they’re willing to do about it?

 

[The Wizard of Moz]

Idk why I always get funnies for it, but my dream offseason is getting Wade.

Playoff Wade is still a fucking beast. We can give him routine days off in the regular season and major reduced minutes.

Plus the added benefit of being the one guy who has ever shown he can lead LBJ.

 

[The Wizard of Moz]

Kevin Love to BOS for Avery Bradley and Jae Crowder

Kyrie Irving to ATL for Paul Milsap

What's in it for us

 

[davoor]

So after two bad games you guys want us to blow up the team again? I get it. I'm not confident in this team at all right now, but I'd at least give this team one more year and even if we don't win next year we shouldn't really blow a team up just like that. Not a lot of teams/organizations can be successful if a team is different i.e. blow up almost every year... Kyrie and Love are both still fairly young and it's their first time on the biggest of stages, so I think it's understandable that they are a little shook.
I may feel calmer because I was sleeping last night and didn't get to watch how horrible they played for the last 30 minutes, but even if we loose or God forbid we get swept I still wouldn't blow this team up just yet. I feel that it better to try to build somewhat of a foundation (like probably work on defensive strategies for most of the off-season or defense in general) and somehow try to get a serviceable veteran in the off-season. We certainly won't ever get serviceable player on the cheap or at least serviceable veterans if we are seen as an unstable organization that blows things up as soon as thing get tough.

 

[Urban]

So after two bad games you guys want us to blow up the team again? I get it. I'm not confident in this team at all right now, but I'd at least give this team one more year and even if we don't win next year we shouldn't really blow a team up just like that. Not a lot of teams/organizations can be successful if a team is different i.e. blow up almost every year... Kyrie and Love are both still fairly young and it's their first time on the biggest of stages, so I think it's understandable that they are a little shook.
I may feel calmer because I was sleeping last night and didn't get to watch how horrible they played for the last 30 minutes, but even if we loose or God forbid we get swept I still wouldn't blow this team up just yet. I feel that it better to try to build somewhat of a foundation (like probably work on defensive strategies for most of the off-season or defense in general) and somehow try to get a serviceable veteran in the off-season. We certainly won't ever get serviceable player on the cheap or at least serviceable veterans if we are seen as an unstable organization that blows things up as soon as thing get tough.

I think it's that people are torn on what the team needs to do. Stability has shown to be key in sports. On the other hand, our Big 3 is somewhat fatally flawed in a way that leaves us extremely exposed to the walking dynasty we happened to run into.

You can't really afford to remain stagnant and hope things will work out better next year. Warriors roster will be the same (may lose Speights and Barbosa), if not better. Cavs have bled their assets dry and the only way we can really get better is through the MLE.

Gilbert and LeBron have shown to be impatient before and considering LeBron's closing window, I think people are expecting changes.

 

[billmac91]

I think it's that people are torn on what the team needs to do. Stability has shown to be key in sports. On the other hand, our Big 3 is somewhat fatally flawed in a way that leaves us extremely exposed to the walking dynasty we happened to run into.

You can't really afford to remain stagnant and hope things will work out better next year. Warriors roster will be the same (may lose Speights and Barbosa), if not better. Cavs have bled their assets dry and the only way we can really get better is through the MLE.

Gilbert and LeBron have shown to be impatient before and considering LeBron's closing window, I think people are expecting changes.

A lot of this. It's not that people are being impatient, it's more that Kyrie's defense will never be solid, and Kevin Love has become exposed in today's NBA where more and more teams are gravitating towards skilled 4's that can play on the perimeter and handle the ball.

Staying the course will leave the Cavs completely exposed, and teams in the East are only going to continue to get better.

The good news is that Kyrie and Love are both on long-term contracts so they're very tradeable. I think the Cavs/LeBron will look to re-tool this off-season, and roster fit will be of utmost importance. The key will be whether or not LeBron is willing to transition into a full-time PF, and become our elite version of Draymond Green.

 

[iWx]

I don't know how the NBA salary cap and everything works but I was curious about something maybe someone can help me.

Say Cavs trade Irving for Chris Paul after this season. 2017 comes around and both Paul/Lebron both opt out of there contracts. Could the Cavs then say sign Dwayne Wade in FA(since they will be under the cap) then resign Paul/Lebron and go over the cap?