NBA's Top 20 Players Right Now

[Jordan]

Wtf? Listen, I'm not going to write anything long here because I had a shoulder separation but,
I only said how can you seriously ranked PG13 ahead of CP3, I didn't say anything about how someone that watches the nba can make such ranking nor did I ever imply that.
You are really mentally fragile cause again, I didn't mean to say anything hurtful or to demean you. I disagree a lot with what you write about but it's a free country and I'm sorry that I didn't word differently so you never took offense in the first place.

The only misconception was with Bimbo and I already said sorry. As for Gourimoko, I just don't agree with everything he says and he knows it, that's it. I never said anything bad to him, quite the opposite.

Again, you are the one attacking me, I have never attacked you, ever. Maybe the way I write doesn't come off nice sometimes, I dunno. It's a message board, I would say the same thing to you face to face and it would sound completely different and I would do it with a little smile.
If you wanna talk about being an elitist you have your friend Gourimoko, he writes in a much more "condencending" way and yet he was never attacked for it or criticized.

And really, what made you think I don't understand RPM and WS/48?

Okay, good deal bro.

 

[blommen]

Its things like this that have prevented me from making a list. Too hard to decide, but i love the debates. I know Harden is having an amazing year, but I always thought he was over rated, the lack of effort on D bothers me, but man, he really has got Houston competing on a really not so great roster. So I for sure see your point.

I am with in regards to finding Harden overrated prior to this season, his game frankly bothered the shit out of me. I hated how he got to the line so much, how much he slacked off on defense, his stupid Flatbush Zombies style beard, hated all of it. I just... I can't overlook what he's doing offensively any more. there's always that equation with good scorers where you go "as good as he is at putting it in, does it get offset by what goes on on defense?" and Harden has just taken his offense to such an earthshattering level, one I NEVER envisioned him taking it to, that it has made his defensive shortcomings a bit easier to swallow as part of the package.

I have also grown to if not like then at least appreciate his ability to draw fouls. A lot of times when people talk about Harden drawing fouls it quickly turns into this idea that he's being "awarded the points by the refs" and that he isn't really doing anything spectacular, when the fact of the matter is that what Harden is doing noone else in the league is able to do. He has a downright uncanny knack for timing his shots and catching the defender reaching in, and it comes across in his ballhandling as well. Where Kyrie uses his handle to break down his defender, Harden uses his ridiculous first step and timing to split the defense and catch it out of position so they have to overplay, which is when he gets them to foul him. He's found an exploit in the rule set and just happens to be better than anyone else in the league at exploiting that rule.

It's absolutely not always pretty and there are some pretty rough question marks regarding its usability in the Playoffs where the physicality picks up, but to write it off as cheap and easy and "relying on the refs" just doesn't really sit well with me any more.

 

[Otsego Mar]

I am with in regards to finding Harden overrated prior to this season, his game frankly bothered the shit out of me. I hated how he got to the line so much, how much he slacked off on defense, his stupid Flatbush Zombies style beard, hated all of it. I just... I can't overlook what he's doing offensively any more. there's always that equation with good scorers where you go "as good as he is at putting it in, does it get offset by what goes on on defense?" and Harden has just taken his offense to such an earthshattering level, one I NEVER envisioned him taking it to, that it has made his defensive shortcomings a bit easier to swallow as part of the package.

I have also grown to if not like then at least appreciate his ability to draw fouls. A lot of times when people talk about Harden drawing fouls it quickly turns into this idea that he's being "awarded the points by the refs" and that he isn't really doing anything spectacular, when the fact of the matter is that what Harden is doing noone else in the league is able to do. He has a downright uncanny knack for timing his shots and catching the defender reaching in, and it comes across in his ballhandling as well. Where Kyrie uses his handle to break down his defender, Harden uses his ridiculous first step and timing to split the defense and catch it out of position so they have to overplay, which is when he gets them to foul him. He's found an exploit in the rule set and just happens to be better than anyone else in the league at exploiting that rule.

It's absolutely not always pretty and there are some pretty rough question marks regarding its usability in the Playoffs where the physicality picks up, but to write it off as cheap and easy and "relying on the refs" just doesn't really sit well with me any more.

His beard alone puts him outside the top 20.

 

[theSwayze]

His beard alone puts him outside the top 20.

FYI- Lord Mar is our next President:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/pol...on-secretary-state-mustache-article-1.2920265

 

[iWx]

From your list you definitely value defense.

Interesting to me how you can see what people like about players.

I think you have Steph to low, but hey, any list that doesnt value the great Steph Curry is ok in my book, lol.

Yea I put a lot of value on the ability to guard and have success against the other teams best player. Especially if they do it every night. The more you can do for me the better.

I can't get last years finals out of my head when it comes to Curry/Kyrie. Irving wanted Curry and Curry wanted no part of Irving. Kyrie out played him going against better defenders.

Kyrie/Lowry seem to be taking the next step in their development while Curry seems to have taken a slight step back. I feel you plug Kyrie/Lowry in that Warriors system and they are a better team than they are with Curry.

 

[Lee]

Yea I put a lot of value on the ability to guard and have success against the other teams best player. Especially if they do it every night. The more you can do for me the better.

I can't get last years finals out of my head when it comes to Curry/Kyrie. Irving wanted Curry and Curry wanted no part of Irving. Kyrie out played him going against better defenders.

Kyrie/Lowry seem to be taking the next step in their development while Curry seems to have taken a slight step back. I feel you plug Kyrie/Lowry in that Warriors system and they are a better team than they are with Curry.

Not sure I agree on Curry, but well thought out and explained.

 

[gourimoko]

I would put CP3 ahead of George, but 2 extremely valid points making me rethink that.

First, the guarding 1-4 at elite level of George.

And 2 the Clippers last night beat the Spurs and CP3 was hurt the entire 2nd half along with Blake being out a month.

All I can say to anyone is making these lists is extremely hard.

I know its weird, but i would have an easier time for a top 20 list of all time. Most on the list are retired so you dont have to think about anything but their careers, not their current level of play, past and a little about future.

Gotta agree with @jking948 's logic here... I mean, the case he makes is quite compelling and you're right, defensively, being an elite defensive presence from the 1-4 is just, ridiculous.

Moreover, guys, using RPM to gauge who is better than who is ... not wise. I can explain why for anyone who wants to understand this, but I see it quite often. RPM does not tell you which player is better than another; it was never designed for this purpose, and if you understand the metric, then you'd understand why this isn't relevant.

All it's designed to do is identify the variance in impact on the score between a player being in a game and a player being out of a game. Some defensive players, or players who teams rely on to run their offense get huge boosts in RAPM-based metrics because of their role, not because of their individual talent.

 

[gourimoko]

Wtf? Listen, I'm not going to write anything long here because I had a shoulder separation but,
I only said how can you seriously ranked PG13 ahead of CP3

He already explained this to you twice.

If you wanna talk about being an elitist you have your friend Gourimoko, he writes in a much more "condencending" way and yet he was never attacked for it or criticized.

I love how in this day and age, analytics and having arguments based on logic, rationality, and empirical data is considered condescending.

And really, what made you think I don't understand RPM and WS/48?

I wrote a post about this, I think it was addressed to you, in another thread months ago.

You're using RPM to rank players; that's not an argument. Saying "OMG HOW COULD YOU POSSIBLY PUT THIS ELITE PLAYER OVER THIS OTHER ELITE PLAYER CUZ RPM;" is not an argument.

Rather than break down the regression model, here's an example of why you shouldn't use RAPM based metrics to rank players: In 2015-16, RPM had Draymond Green ranked second in the league overall. That's not a measure of talent or ability, it's a measure of team dependency on Green to perform his role within the bulk of their lineups. It means Green is the linchpin of the then constructed Golden State Warriors since he was their small-ball center, rebounder, primary playmaker, primary ball-handler, primary screen setter, and would often initiate most pick and pop/pick and roll action either with Curry or Klay.

RAPM is telling you the team is better when Green is on the floor; he adds x number of wins, based on y amount of team points produced as a result of him being in the lineup. RPM adds to this, 'informing' the metric, based on previous seasons of RPM (career), box score data (so no, it's not only the score), and the players height. There could be other factors here, but we wouldn't know, because RPM is not just xRAPM, it's somewhat of a black box that ESPN hasn't decided to open.

As far as WS/48, I've never heard of anyone using this to rank players... I'm not saying you can't but, I think some context/explanation as to why you're using this particular metric would be warranted.

 

[Scholar]

Nah dude, evidently I'm just a fragile mental case. That's not a personal attack. Dom doesn't do personal attacks.

hands jking a snickers...

 

[Jordan]

hands jking a snickers...

Better? Better!

 

[blommen]

Edit: oops

 

[godfather]

Because I watch other teams? I know you think you're the only one who watches basketball on here, and originally your posting was great, but you've directly insulted multiple posters since the start. Get over yourself. If you wanted to say, "I disagree with putting CP3 behind PG13 because xyz..." that's totally fine. But saying "how can you seriously put Paul George ahead of CP3" is straight-up disrespectful. If you think posters on here are so stupid - something you've insinuated multiple times - then feel free to leave. This forum was great before you, is great with you, and can be great without you. If you want to post informative content without attacking people, please stay, because you do know a lot about the NBA. But if your need is to demean other posters on here then, seriously, think about why you are posting on RCF.

As for your question, Paul George can guard the 1-4 at an elite level, and in the playoffs, his team was awful with him off the court. You talk about how good the Clippers are with Paul vs. without Paul while completely ignoring the corollary with George. Paul George led a team whose second best player was George Hill close to a victory over the Raptors in the first round. The only reason Indiana lost is because the Pacers straight-up could not score nor defend with PG13 resting.

Is PG13 inconsistent in the regular season? Yeah, he definitely is. Is CP3 a great player? Yeah, he is. Paul George is one of the five best two-way players in the NBA (LeBron, Kawhi, Butler, etc.). Paul is an amazing PG defender. He is arguably the best defensive PG in the NBA. But he can only guard the 1 because of his size. Paul George has show the ability to defend the 1-4 at an elite level, be the best player on a playoff team, be the best player on a playoff team that goes deep in the playoffs, lead his team in (efficient) scoring, and is still pretty young.

Finally, I don't know why you insinuate that I have Kyrie over CP3. I agree, CP3 is better right now. CP3 is a much better defender, better facilitator, and nearly as good of a scorer. In fact, you say most on here disagree, but most rankings I've seen on here have CP3 ranked higher. So I really don't know where you are getting this.

Opinions are obviously going to vary. If someone doesn't like a list, they should make one! LOL

There's some really good basketball players, the best we've seen IMO. No one is going to have the exact list.

Hell, if anyone is on the top-20, they are really good, end of story.

I didn't even have guys like John Wall or Klay Thompson and those are really good players.

Everyone on my 20 I feel are really, really good players you can build a team around. That's how good the talent pool is right now.

 

[Jordan]

Opinions are obviously going to vary. If someone doesn't like a list, they should make one! LOL

There's some really good basketball players, the best we've seen IMO. No one is going to have the exact list.

Hell, if anyone is on the top-20, they are really good, end of story.

I didn't even have guys like John Wall or Klay Thompson and those are really good players.

Everyone on my 20 I feel are really, really good players you can build a team around. That's how good the talent pool is right now.

Excellent post! I totally agree. The NBA is so deep right now. It's just a blast to follow.

 

[godfather]

Excellent post! I totally agree. The NBA is so deep right now. It's just a blast to follow.

Still amazing to me how much better LeBron is in this era too. There's some great players right now. The NBA is my favorite sport by far right now.

It used to be football but Goodell has ruin the sport for me.

 

[Jordan]

Still amazing to me how much better LeBron is in this era too. There's some great players right now. The NBA is my favorite sport by far right now.

It used to be football but Goodell has ruin the sport for me.

Basketball lost a little bit of flair to me during 2009-2011. I went more towards soccer. But the rise of Derrick Rose, the OKC Thunder, and Paul George got me hooked back. The crazy thing is it is still improving. Every draft class is better than the last. I just love it.