Racial Tension in the U.S.

[The Human Q-Tip]

I agree, I think he's largely unemployed because his football skills aren't greater than the drama that comes w/ him. I think Kaep realized that and that's why he announced his protest was over in the hopes to tip the scales back to him being worth taking a chance on.

I have a problem assuming any positive intent when it comes from Spike Lee. Just based off of things he's said in the past, I'm automatically defensive when his name comes up. It's a shame. I was a fan until I realized he didn't want me to be.

Right. Kaepernick claims his protest is over, and that was explained because now that he's looking for a job instead of already having one. What happens the next time he's under contract and worried about being cut?

As for Lee...I agree. He seems to have little use for white people.

 

[AZ_]

Right. Kaepernick claims his protest is over, and that was explained because now that he's looking for a job instead of already having one. What happens the next time he's under contract and worried about being cut?

As for Lee...I agree. He seems to have little use for white people.

It's just impossible for you to believe his protest was genuine, isn't it?

 

[Huber.]

It's just impossible for you to believe his protest was genuine, isn't it?

Why would we? We already have Max's insiders saying it was and his recent claims that he is done protesting lines up with his story.

 

[AZ_]

Why would we? We already have Max's insiders saying it was and his recent claims that he is done protesting lines up with his story.

The insiders who said it was about protecting his roster spot, despite the money already being mostly guaranteed by the time his protest started?

Good to know you're back to believing "sources" though.

 

[Wrathe]

The insiders who said it was about protecting his roster spot, despite the money already being mostly guaranteed by the time his protest started?

Good to know you're back to believing "sources" though.

I never heard about an insiders take on anything. I always thought he wanted to make a subtle statement that blew up and whirlwinded into a national headline. I think at that point he got help on what to do w/ the newfound unexpected platform but eventually had to speak for himself and it came out about the not voting which contradicted his message of wanting to motivate change and people lost interest.

I don't think he's a bad guy for his message. However his platform choice stole the show, in the end.

That's all water under the bridge. He's no longer employed there (or anywhere). Is he being blacklisted because of all this, does he have no talent left, or a mix of both? Is he being wronged?

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

It's just impossible for you to believe his protest was genuine, isn't it?

No, and I didn't say it wasn't genuine. That's actually irrelevant to my point.

I was referring to a post @Cavatt made previously about how the reality is that it is easier/less risky to speak your mind and give honest opinions if it isn't going to adversely affect your job. That doesn't mean the opinions you state aren't honestly held or genuine.

So I'm pointing out that right now, while Kaepernick is looking for a job, he is telling prospective employers that he will stand for the anthem. But once he gets a job, and there is some new controversy...what then?

My point is that owners have no reason to assume that he's going to bite his tongue about his genuine beliefs once he has a job. This could happen all over again, and that's true whether or not his protest was genuine.

So I see nothing wrong with owners not wanting to take the risk that he's going to be making political statements with which those owners do not agree while wearing their uniform. They're entitled to say "fuck no, not on my dime."

 

[Cavatt]

No, and I didn't say it wasn't genuine. That's actually irrelevant to my point.

I was referring to a post @Cavatt made previously about how the reality is that it is easier/less risky to speak your mind and give honest opinions if it isn't going to adversely affect your job. That doesn't mean the opinions you state aren't honestly held or genuine.

So I'm pointing out that right now, while Kaepernick is looking for a job, he is telling prospective employers that he will stand for the anthem. But once he gets a job, and there is some new controversy...what then?

My point is that owners have no reason to assume that he's going to bite his tongue about his genuine beliefs once he has a job. This could happen all over again, and that's true whether or not his protest was genuine.

So I see nothing wrong with owners not wanting to take the risk that he's going to be making political statements with which those owners do not agree while wearing their uniform. They're entitled to say "fuck no, not on my dime."

I don't take issue with him not having a job. If he was so super valuable, he would not have been riding the pine. You get a guy like Cousins, who everyone knows is trouble, but he doesn't get cut because his talent is undeniable. If you have an undeniable skill, you will get work. Could owners/gms have enough of an issue with him and his stance that they don't want to deal with it? Maybe, but this is not exactly generating headlines right now with the season ended and Trump on every station.

The reason i got into it with you in the first place though was the suggestion made by Max that he did this all as a stunt to stay employed. You made a post supporting that, and I took issue with it because it made no sense as it did not seem to affect his employment as much as was originally suggested. If anything it would appear his protests has hurt his employment. It is not necessarily a good idea to get caught in controversy in a whole contract year, not just when you are actively looking.

You personally as a poster have repeatedly warned us not to judge motive when the information is not there. Whether we are talking about judging someone wearing/flying the confederate flag or a police officer who shoots an unarmed man/child. I did not find your original assessment of Kap's motive, which you have admittedly backed away from and come closer to mine that he probably does not feel as comfortable voicing his opinion in the face of job insecurity.

I understand trusting Max's sources on which guy they are picking and all that, but this tip sounds like a rumor. The basis of it doesn't ring true unless Kap is just not a poor financial planner. He made an extra million, while giving away a million dollars(to keep up the ruse?), so that he would likely lose millions when no one wanted to sign him once his contract was up? It doesn't ring true with the evidence we have seen, especially in hindsight. I don't doubt Max heard that, but it was likely from someone who was ready to believe anything negative they heard.

 

[Jack Brickman]

I'd say the Kaepernick thing boils down to the consequences of practicing free speech. You're free to speak your mind, but employers are free to not hire you if they don't like the things you said. It wouldn't be an issue if he was a better football player, but he's a replacement level QB, and I'd wager many teams have decided they'd rather go with other options that are less inclined to cause them headaches later.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

The reason i got into it with you in the first place though was the suggestion made by Max that he did this all as a stunt to stay employed. You made a post supporting that, and I took issue with it because it made no sense as it did not seem to affect his employment as much as was originally suggested.

Well, that's my fault for not being sufficiently clear. My actual position was "we really don't know", not agreeing with either @Maximus or you. But I didn't agree that it was money -- in fact, I said this:

But I don't think it was just a money grab -- I think it was more an issue of a guy desperate to remain relevant. But I do think it (the specific not standing for the anthem move, not the movement as a whole) was indeed a fad.

But I could have been more clear.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

I'd say the Kaepernick thing boils down to the consequences of practicing free speech. You're free to speak your mind, but employers are free to not hire you if they don't like the things you said. It wouldn't be an issue if he was a better football player, but he's a replacement level QB, and I'd wager many teams have decided they'd rather go with other options that are less inclined to cause them headaches later.

Sometimes people get so caught up in the rhetoric of "you can't penalize him just for speaking out", that they forget we do that all the time. Donald Sterling lost his franchise because he said stupid things in private. If a player came out for the anthem holding a little Confederate flag, people would go apeshit. Lot of people wouldn't accept an excuse that it was only meant to show his "southern pride" -- they'd be offended anyway despite his different explanation. Likewise, a lot of people were offended by what Kaepernick did, believing it was disrespectful to veterans, etc., even though he said that wasn't what he meant either.

If you choose to make a public statement, you can't control how the public reacts.

 

[Jack Brickman]

Sometimes people get so caught up in the rhetoric of "you can't penalize him just for speaking out", that they forget we do that all the time. Donald Sterling lost his franchise because he said stupid things in private. If a player came out for the anthem holding a little Confederate flag, people would go apeshit. Lot of people wouldn't accept an excuse that it was only meant to show his "southern pride" -- they'd be offended anyway despite his different explanation. Likewise, a lot of people were offended by what Kaepernick did, believing it was disrespectful to veterans, etc., even though he said that wasn't what he meant either.

If you choose to make a public statement, you can't control how the public reacts.

I think it's because most people don't understand what free speech means. It doesn't mean speech without consequences. It simply means the government can't throw you in jail for speaking your mind.

I wasn't offended by what Kaepernick did, but I also don't have a problem with NFL teams refusing to offer him a job because of it. That said, he's probably not getting job offers more because he's a shitty QB than because he took a knee during the anthem. If Aaron Rodgers did the same, he'd still have thirty-two teams willing to offer him a contract.

 

[Cavatt]

Well, that's my fault for not being sufficiently clear. My actual position was "we really don't know", not agreeing with either @Maximus or you. But I didn't agree that it was money -- in fact, I said this:



But I could have been more clear.

Yeh I honestly tried to go back and get your whole point accurately, but I could not find it, there are 100 pages since then.

 

[Soda]

I wasn't offended by what Kaepernick did, but I also don't have a problem with NFL teams refusing to offer him a job because of it. That said, he's probably not getting job offers more because he's a shitty QB than because he took a knee during the anthem. If Aaron Rodgers did the same, he'd still have thirty-two teams willing to offer him a contract.

And here goes @JackBrickman .... "Wham with the right hand"

 

[Tornicade]

Kaepernick is just Tim Tebow with more playoff wins.

 

[AZ_]

Didn't know where to put this, but since it's a Police summit: