Reallistically- How long before will it take to be a top 2-3 seed in the East?

[VAIN1]

Twenty more wins would put us at 53 wins for the season, which would have been the third-best team in the East this year, although one of the teams above that total was Miami with 54.

I am still trying to weigh is that simply LBJ or is that with all the floor spacing he would provide helping get better looks for the rest of the team.

We have no idea what we have yet but we do know we need to improve defensively be it at the 5. Or even the 4 if we see value in the AV of 2 seasons ago. Could that be a more viable angle of approach with a better team balance as far as X's & O's.

Almost goes to show LBJ really isn't in the Kobe or MJ class he seems seriously fearful to lead wit out a super stacked deck.

 

[CavsFan87]

wade missed 35 games but the games he played he was great.. he had career high in fg%.. he had the best post season as well minus the finals..

pacers is still a long defensive team even without stephenson..

a healthy loul deng may not be lbj but is still a good offensive option for the heat..

wizards get a veteran closer in pierce and wall and beal has better game chemistry than irving and waiters..

haslem is a good mid range shooter and is a solid defensive player a good complement with lbj.. TT, cant shoot, defend.. he rebounds well though..

these teams(wiz, hornets, bulls, pacers) have good post options.. they are well balanced and are known to have better defense than the cavs.. they played together and has reached the playoffs together.. chemistry is as important as talent in the NBA..

lbj has a 33-win team that has lost it's center rotation, a shoot first pg, a sg that doesnt want to play 2nd fiddle, a short pf that rebounds, and a fragile center.. this is a playoff team, no doubt.. but a top 3 team would be difficult.. building chemistry, maximizing the skill and talent and learning to play winning basketball needs time..

All of your posts are grossly subjective...

You lost me at "TT is not even comparable to Haslem"

also thanks for reminding us that Wiggins has never played an NBA game. Funny thing is Riley would probably give us ANY player on the Heat roster, straight up for Wiggins, right now.

 

[pinoycavsfan]

All of your posts are grossly subjective...

You lost me at "TT is not even comparable to Haslem"

also thanks for reminding us that Wiggins has never played an NBA game. Funny thing is Riley would probably give us ANY player on the Heat roster, straight up for Wiggins, right now.

that's the thing.. miami would PROBABLY give anything for wiggins if they see that they're not competing for the title.. getting wiggins and waiting for him to develop is a long term move and will benefit the team in the future..

the situation with the cavs is different.. we have lbj.. and every year we have lbj the cavs are expected to compete for the title.. lebron did not commit long term to the cavs because he doesnt want to wait on wiggins to develop and waste his prime.. he signed a yearly opt out clause to put pressure on the cavs to put out a better team.. this team right now is not a championship caliber team.. it is too flawed and lacks experience.. it is not even top 3 seed in the east like most of us wants.. we can say that kyrie is better than all pg in the east and dion is probably top 10 sg in the east.. but this combo has not won anything in the EAST.. in the EAST! position by position match up, the cavs have an edge; but match-ups is never a good indication of success.. team chemistry is as important as talent..

 

[tsteele316]

wade missed 35 games but the games he played he was great.. he had career high in fg%.. he had the best post season as well minus the finals..

pacers is still a long defensive team even without stephenson..

a healthy loul deng may not be lbj but is still a good offensive option for the heat..

wizards get a veteran closer in pierce and wall and beal has better game chemistry than irving and waiters..

haslem is a good mid range shooter and is a solid defensive player a good complement with lbj.. TT, cant shoot, defend.. he rebounds well though..

these teams(wiz, hornets, bulls, pacers) have good post options.. they are well balanced and are known to have better defense than the cavs.. they played together and has reached the playoffs together.. chemistry is as important as talent in the NBA..

lbj has a 33-win team that has lost it's center rotation, a shoot first pg, a sg that doesnt want to play 2nd fiddle, a short pf that rebounds, and a fragile center.. this is a playoff team, no doubt.. but a top 3 team would be difficult.. building chemistry, maximizing the skill and talent, forgetting bad habits from losing and learning to play winning basketball needs time.. i dont see the cavs reaching full potential until next season.. there will be growing pains and it will be tough especially for lebron.. but if this team sticks it through (lbj stays) and with blatt on the sidelines, we'll see a championship caliber team in the upcoming years..

wade will now be asked to carry a substantially heavier load, and inevitably play more minutes. ironically, in all of your rantings about team chemistry, you neglect to mention that miami is basically turning over most of their roster.

the pacers still struggle to score, even with stephenson. losing one of their defensive lynchpins and a good offensive pop is a downgrade, no other way to spin it.

a healthy luol deng is the key. he hasn't been fully healthy in a while and thibs ran him into the ground. miami, with their lack of talent and depth, will do the same.

calling pierce a closer is nice, but he simply doesn't nor will come close to the output that ariza gave them last year. no other way to spin this either.

haslam moves like he has cinder blocks in his shorts, and is aging rapidly. this whole comparison is a farce, period.

the bottom line is that the cavs were a 33 win team with one of the worst head coaches in the nba, who was absolutely the wrong choice to coach a team of young guys. the change in coaching staff alone improves that team's win output significantly. add to that the best player on the planet. 48 wins netted a 3 seed last year. your hyperbole still doesn't work.

 

[Kizzle]

We could be 2-3 seed this year IMO. If we get Love we definitely can beat IND

 

[Jack Brickman]

We could be 2-3 seed this year IMO. If we get Love we definitely can beat IND

I think we can beat Indiana anyway. They just lost their second-best player for nothing. They basically removed themselves from the Eastern Conference Championship picture, provided Rose can actually play a full season for once.

 

[CavsFan87]

wade will now be asked to carry a substantially heavier load, and inevitably play more minutes. ironically, in all of your rantings about team chemistry, you neglect to mention that miami is basically turning over most of their roster.

the pacers still struggle to score, even with stephenson. losing one of their defensive lynchpins and a good offensive pop is a downgrade, no other way to spin it.

a healthy luol deng is the key. he hasn't been fully healthy in a while and thibs ran him into the ground. miami, with their lack of talent and depth, will do the same.

calling pierce a closer is nice, but he simply doesn't nor will come close to the output that ariza gave them last year. no other way to spin this either.

haslam moves like he has cinder blocks in his shorts, and is aging rapidly. this whole comparison is a farce, period.

the bottom line is that the cavs were a 33 win team with one of the worst head coaches in the nba, who was absolutely the wrong choice to coach a team of young guys. the change in coaching staff alone improves that team's win output significantly. add to that the best player on the planet. 48 wins netted a 3 seed last year. your hyperbole still doesn't work.

Not to mention the additions of Mike Miller, James Jones, and the #1 overall pick..

Nice post steele316, agree with all of your points

 

[davedugan43]

wade missed 35 games but the games he played he was great.. he had career high in fg%.. he had the best post season as well minus the finals..

pacers is still a long defensive team even without stephenson..

a healthy loul deng may not be lbj but is still a good offensive option for the heat..

wizards get a veteran closer in pierce and wall and beal has better game chemistry than irving and waiters..

haslem is a good mid range shooter and is a solid defensive player a good complement with lbj.. TT, cant shoot, defend.. he rebounds well though..

these teams(wiz, hornets, bulls, pacers) have good post options.. they are well balanced and are known to have better defense than the cavs.. they played together and has reached the playoffs together.. chemistry is as important as talent in the NBA..

lbj has a 33-win team that has lost it's center rotation, a shoot first pg, a sg that doesnt want to play 2nd fiddle, a short pf that rebounds, and a fragile center.. this is a playoff team, no doubt.. but a top 3 team would be difficult.. building chemistry, maximizing the skill and talent, forgetting bad habits from losing and learning to play winning basketball needs time.. i dont see the cavs reaching full potential until next season.. there will be growing pains and it will be tough especially for lebron.. but if this team sticks it through (lbj stays) and with blatt on the sidelines, we'll see a championship caliber team in the upcoming years..

Fine. I guess I'll be the one to say it. This is just dead wrong. The Cavs are going after Kevin Love, not because they think he would make them Eastern Conference contenders, but to make them the favorites to win it all. Right now, there are maybe 4 or 5 teams better than the Cavs. All of them are in the West. San Antonio, OKC, Clips, and Rockets are better than Cavs. The Mavs, Blazers, Bulls, and Pacers should be on our level or just below. But that's it. I will bet you right here, right now the Cavs finish no lower than 3rd in the East. My guy says 2nd, with the possibility of 1st. But chemistry definitely does exist. So give them time.

I think the East playoffs look like this next season.

1 Chicago
2 Cleveland
3 Indiana
4 Washington
5 Toronto
6 Charlotte
7 New York
8 Miami
---------------
9 Atlanta
10 Detroit
11 Boston
12 Orlando
13 Brooklyn
14 Milwaukee
15 Philly


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[KanAbyssKid]

I think we can beat Indiana anyway. They just lost their second-best player for nothing. They basically removed themselves from the Eastern Conference Championship picture, provided Rose can actually play a full season for once.

Completely agree. The Cavs would probably win the #1 seed in the East this year even if they backed out of the Love deal and made no more trades. This Cavs team would already be a 60 win team. Just because it'll get even better over the years doesn't mean that it isn't already a great team that can win now.

The only teams that would be involved in the race for the #1 seed would be the Cavs, Bulls, and Pacers. Like Brickman said, the loss of Stephenson hurts the Pacers, so they're not a true threat imo. The Bulls could be the #1 seed if their main pieces stay healthy and play their best, but Rose has relentlessly proven himself to not be durable, so counting on him is a fool's bet. Even with Rose, it would be hard for them to win over 60 games...which they'd probably have to do to outpace the Cavs, since the Cavs would likely win 60-65 games.

It's ridiculous how much better the current core is than that of the Cavs teams that went to the NBA Finals and won 60-66 games. Irving/Waiters/Wiggins/Thompson/Bennett + championship bench (Miller, Allen, Jones, ?) is way better than guys like Snow/Newble/Pavolovic/Gooden/Flip Murray/JMac/Gibson/Mo. Current Varejao is at least comparable to old man Z, and current LeBron is better than young LeBron. Plus the East is still weak.

Cavs don't have to make any trades whatsoever to be in 'win now' mode. It's all a disgusting false meme.

If Cleveland's management seriously doesn't think Wiggins is going to contribute squat this year, then trade him for Embiid (who they should have taken anyway), and trade Bennett/Haywood for Ryan Anderson.

Irving/Delly
Waiters/Allen
LeBron/Miller/Jones
RAnderson/Thompson
Varejao/(Thompson)/Embiid

Embiid will probably be a better player than Love (at least as good offensively and passing, while vastly superior defensively), and Ryan Anderson is a better shooter than Love, anyway.

LeBron would have plenty of time to see and comprehend just how great Embiid is, so unless LBJ is truly a moron, he wouldn't bolt next summer.

Embiid will tear up the league as a 'sophomore' rookie, sort of like Griffin did, but better. Difference maker right away.

If the Cavs would follow the RAnderson/Embiid course, not only would they probably win 60+ games and make it to the NBA Finals this year (and have at least a 33-50% chance of winning the title at that point), they'd probably be the heavy favorites to win the title every year for the next decade.

Or they can screw it all up by pissing away all their assets just to get Love.

I have zero confidence in Griffin, Gilbert, and LeBron to make good GM decisions. It just seems inevitable that they're going to completely misplay their stacked hand.

 

[Jordan]

If the Cavs would follow the RAnderson/Embiid course, not only would they probably win 60+ games and make it to the NBA Finals this year (and have at least a 33-50% chance of winning the title at that point), they'd probably be the heavy favorites to win the title every year for the next decade.

Or they can screw it all up by pissing away all their assets just to get Love.

I have zero confidence in Griffin, Gilbert, and LeBron to make good GM decisions. It just seems inevitable that they're going to completely misplay their stacked hand.

60+ wins this year with a guy who won't play (Embiid) and a solid backup big man? I doubt we get even near that this year with a good defensive rookie who will play and a solid big man (Bennett/TT).

 

[Kizzle]

Completely agree. The Cavs would probably win the #1 seed in the East this year even if they backed out of the Love deal and made no more trades. This Cavs team would already be a 60 win team. Just because it'll get even better over the years doesn't mean that it isn't already a great team that can win now.

The only teams that would be involved in the race for the #1 seed would be the Cavs, Bulls, and Pacers. Like Brickman said, the loss of Stephenson hurts the Pacers, so they're not a true threat imo. The Bulls could be the #1 seed if their main pieces stay healthy and play their best, but Rose has relentlessly proven himself to not be durable, so counting on him is a fool's bet. Even with Rose, it would be hard for them to win over 60 games...which they'd probably have to do to outpace the Cavs, since the Cavs would likely win 60-65 games.

It's ridiculous how much better the current core is than that of the Cavs teams that went to the NBA Finals and won 60-66 games. Irving/Waiters/Wiggins/Thompson/Bennett + championship bench (Miller, Allen, Jones, ?) is way better than guys like Snow/Newble/Pavolovic/Gooden/Flip Murray/JMac/Gibson/Mo. Current Varejao is at least comparable to old man Z, and current LeBron is better than young LeBron. Plus the East is still weak.

Cavs don't have to make any trades whatsoever to be in 'win now' mode. It's all a disgusting false meme.

If Cleveland's management seriously doesn't think Wiggins is going to contribute squat this year, then trade him for Embiid (who they should have taken anyway), and trade Bennett/Haywood for Ryan Anderson.

Irving/Delly
Waiters/Allen
LeBron/Miller/Jones
RAnderson/Thompson
Varejao/(Thompson)/Embiid

Embiid will probably be a better player than Love (at least as good offensively and passing, while vastly superior defensively), and Ryan Anderson is a better shooter than Love, anyway.

LeBron would have plenty of time to see and comprehend just how great Embiid is, so unless LBJ is truly a moron, he wouldn't bolt next summer.

Embiid will tear up the league as a 'sophomore' rookie, sort of like Griffin did, but better. Difference maker right away.

If the Cavs would follow the RAnderson/Embiid course, not only would they probably win 60+ games and make it to the NBA Finals this year (and have at least a 33-50% chance of winning the title at that point), they'd probably be the heavy favorites to win the title every year for the next decade.

Or they can screw it all up by pissing away all their assets just to get Love.

I have zero confidence in Griffin, Gilbert, and LeBron to make good GM decisions. It just seems inevitable that they're going to completely misplay their stacked hand.

You should've seen my face after reading the trade Wiggins for Embiid part. Wow



Just wow


Then the Bennett for Ryan Anderson part


Then you had the nerve to say we're pissing away young assets trading for Love. If you have to make a deal at all giving away multiple young players.........getting LOVE back is in no way shape or form pissing away your assets. The jack deal was pissing assets away......a love deal would be transcendent

 

[Dr. Claw]

cavaliers still is a flawed team. lacks interior defense, perimeter defense is a question if wiggins is traded, no post option (unless LBJ starts playing in the post more), lacks frontcourt depth, and no playoff experience.

imo, the cavs are two years away from being a legitimate top 2-3 in the east. getting lbj is huge for the cavs but i think he is not enough for us to be contenders. i see top 5-7 this coming season and making a huge step the next year.

kyrie still needs to learn how to play the point guard role in a winning team, dion needs to accept his limited role/touches with the team.. LBJ has to learn to play with young, inexperienced guys and be patient with them.. the cavs needs frontcourt depth, desperately..

Bingo. If the Cavs try to stack a team that has THESE kind of flaws only with offense? they will not win a title... ever.

I hope the Cavs (and LeBron) are more patient than I am presently giving them credit for being.

 

[oasis05]

Kak may be the greatest cavs poster of all time. Always a must read. Don't hate the playa, hate the game.

 

[Simmy]

It's ridiculous how much better the current core is than that of the Cavs teams that went to the NBA Finals and won 60-66 games. Irving/Waiters/Wiggins/Thompson/Bennett + championship bench (Miller, Allen, Jones, ?) is way better than guys like Snow/Newble/Pavolovic/Gooden/Flip Murray/JMac/Gibson/Mo. Current Varejao is at least comparable to old man Z, and current LeBron is better than young LeBron. Plus the East is still weak.

This, for me, is the most telling argument. A less-talented LeBron took a FAR less talented team almost all the way. I know everything is subject to it's moment, but that alone is a strong enough indication as to how powerful this team (as is) can actually be.

 

[Zen]

This year is going to feature a lot of ups and downs. Lebron instantly gives us a shot at doing well in the east. But, the east is much improved this year. One thing people are overlooking is the continuity factor. the fact that we have a bunch of young players that have no playoff exp, a new coach, and a ton of new players to implement means it will likely not be a championship year.

What I look for this year is to get a solid system in place, win a lot of games teaching our young players the habits that are needed to win consistently, and then most importantly playoff experience for our young guys. We could make a miracle run if we land love, but likely the year after this upcoming one will be the one where we are really talking about contending.