So long, David Griffin

[Rich]

What you call coincidence, I just call reality.

Are you saying Griff should not have waited to see if Bogut would become available? Are you saying Griff should not have signed Bogut? Would Bogut have been an option if, say, we signed Tavares 6 weeks ago? Then what, we sign Bogut, then re-sign Tavares when Bogut broke his leg?

As for Sanders, I don't care what the Celts or anyone else had to say, from what I saw in his limited time he was worth a look. I think TT's injury made it necessary to get someone with a little less rust like Tavares, but if TT was completely healthy we might have stuck with the plan for Sanders. As it is we'll just have to wait and see if Sanders is back for training camp and if this contract paved the way for him to make a complete comeback on a more realistic timeline.

Gilbert being willing to eat money isn't "fortunate" in some random way. It is the reality that Griffin is operating under. I don't understand how you can somehow penalize or take credit away from Griffin for operating within the parameters he is given?

I can agree that there are problems with Griff failing to address some of the roster holes earlier in the season like the hole left by Mo Williams and Birdman. These were exacerbated by the other injuries we had with base rotation players.

But the fact is a lot of the timing on getting quality replacements was dictated by the need to wait for people like Deron Williams and Andrew Bogut to become available. It required a lot of patience from Griffin and it made people in this forum uneasy while he waited. In the end getting Bogut and DWill1 were clearly the best decisions. Then Bogut going down created a domino effect leading to Sanders then Tavares and to me the way this all went down seems perfectly logical if you look at it in context.

As far as Liggins goes I can only surmise that Lue and Lebron saw more need for an enforcer in the playoffs than for an offensively challenged defender. And didn't that move save Gilbert something like $2.5 million? Not chump change.

I don't understand why signing a center early to help with minutes and then signing Bogut is so crazy to you.

They literally, in less than two months, signed Bogut, waived Bogut, signed Sanders, waived Sanders, signed Tavares. And you're acting like its crazy talk to ask that some of this have been done on the front end. So, yea, they should have signed Tavares and then waived him for Bogut. And you know what? Wed have been better off for it had we had someone eating minutes in the regular season vs getting him right before the playoffs where he will play sparingly.

 

[buzzdog]

I don't understand why signing a center early to help with minutes and then signing Bogut is so crazy to you.

They literally, in less than two months, signed Bogut, waived Bogut, signed Sanders, waived Sanders, signed Tavares. And you're acting like its crazy talk to ask that some of this have been done on the front end. So, yea, they should have signed Tavares and then waived him for Bogut. And you know what? Wed have been better off for it had we had someone eating minutes in the regular season vs getting him right before the playoffs where he will play sparingly.

I see your point. I think this is where trying to be prudent about the cap tax might inhibit how he went about things.

 

[Chris Parker]

I don't understand why signing a center early to help with minutes and then signing Bogut is so crazy to you.

They literally, in less than two months, signed Bogut, waived Bogut, signed Sanders, waived Sanders, signed Tavares. And you're acting like its crazy talk to ask that some of this have been done on the front end. So, yea, they should have signed Tavares and then waived him for Bogut. And you know what? Wed have been better off for it had we had someone eating minutes in the regular season vs getting him right before the playoffs where he will play sparingly.

Sure they might've been pinching nickels, but it's not like the issue wasn't clear to everyone; it was patently obvious that Birdman was on fumes; they had an open spot (thanks, Mo!) that they carried all season almost, rather than developing a player.

Sure, it can be apologized for and couched in reasonable terms. Most bad decisions can when Iman Shumpert doesn't have the ball.

But fact is they made a choice to hose the backend of bench and not provide up-front support to TT, and that decision has consequences for the Cavs that are still resonating today.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

I don't understand why signing a center early to help with minutes and then signing Bogut is so crazy to you.

Probably because they didn't want to be on the hook for a guys salary for the entire season, then waive him and get nothing. It's one thing if you have to do that due to unforeseen circumstances. It's quite another to plan to sign, then waive someone. Especially where Dan is in terms of the luxury tax.

They literally, in less than two months, signed Bogut, waived Bogut, signed Sanders, waived Sanders, signed Tavares. And you're acting like its crazy talk to ask that some of this have been done on the front end. So, yea, they should have signed Tavares and then waived him for Bogut. And you know what?

I think the FO's error was in not putting a higher priority on acquiring a decent center before the season. But once it started....

They didn't know Bogut would get injured. That's why they got Sanders, who they quite rightly believed had the potential to be more flexible/useful defensively than Tavares. And they didn't know Sanders was not going to progress sufficiently, so they released him after finding that out. I'm not sure how any of that could have been done ahead of time without knowingly signing a guy to a full year contract, then eating it.

It seems like Tavares is going to become RCF's Patron Saint of Hindsight. The entire league passed on signing this guy, so blaming our FO for not signing this guy earlier in the year (and then cutting him later when they signed Bogut, then Sanders, seems harsh. Bogut was clearly the best option, and Sanders reasonably could be looked upon as the best upside guy because of his ability to guard the perimeter. Tavares is the slow-footed fallback when all other options are exhausted.

I can see saying that the league should have picked up on this guy sooner, but being just one of 30 teams to make that mistake makes it a lot easier to excuse.

 

[LeShaq]

Full interview about Sanders (I think), Tavares, Jones.

http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/video/...12/1492039412216-170412-Griff-PreGame-1363940

 

[LeShaq]

What Griff said right at the beginning of the video (00:20 in or so) is what I was trying to express in the Open Thread as regards Kevin and Kyrie (and others) going too lax in games and having it come back to bite them:


"We tend to think we're better than we are at times"


That's it, in a nutshell. And that's what drives me nuts (and drives Griff nuts).

But it's just how this team is. They don't want to make things easy for themselves, for whatever reason.

 

[Chris Parker]

The belief that you can turn it on whenever you want tends to be self-reinforcing...

....until it isn't.

 

[cavsfever]

Sure they might've been pinching nickels, but it's not like the issue wasn't clear to everyone; it was patently obvious that Birdman was on fumes; they had an open spot (thanks, Mo!) that they carried all season almost, rather than developing a player.

Sure, it can be apologized for and couched in reasonable terms. Most bad decisions can when Iman Shumpert doesn't have the ball.

But fact is they made a choice to hose the backend of bench and not provide up-front support to TT, and that decision has consequences for the Cavs that are still resonating today.

Very well put. The front office got REALLY complacent this summer after the championship and designed a bad roster. That was actually pretty obvious at the time. The whole back half of the roster was deficient -- McRae, Liggins, Mo Williams, Birdman, Dunleavey, RJ, JJ, Felder, that's eight players you can't count on to be NBA quality because they are either totally unproven long shots, injured, or elderly vets over 35 years old. It is a huge and blatant risk to go into a season with EIGHT players on a 15-man roster being either has-beens or never-weres. Just a huge risk.

It isn't even the "back end" of the bench as you say, it was more than half the roster spots! And it totally bit them in the ass. That is on Griffin, not the players effort level. He sent us into the season with a 7 or 8 man usable roster (depending on how you view RJ, who is 36 and dropping off noticeably). That's kind of amazing when you think about it.

Unlike in 2014-15 they could not fully bail the situation out during the regular season with trades. We'll see if they can turn it around in the playoffs.

 

[cavsfever]

Also, overall I credit Griffin with doing a lot of good things, but this excerpt from Windy & McMenamin's new book did slightly alter my assessment of him:

"That's why Griffin had been proceeding with other free agents. In addition to staying in touch with Hayward, he'd made some progress with the agent who represented Chandler Parsons and felt the Cavs could structure a deal that would enable them to have a chance to sign him."
​

Gordon Hayward, fine, but Chandler Parsons! The Cavs seriously dodged a bullet there. If Lebron hadn't come back it's possible Griffin would have locked the team into one of the worst contracts in the NBA!

 

[MrHoops]

This off-season the Cavs have to get some young players who can create their own shot. Right now we only have two players who can create their shot off the dribble. That's ridiculous.

 

[FrontPageNews]

Also, overall I credit Griffin with doing a lot of good things, but this excerpt from Windy & McMenamin's new book did slightly alter my assessment of him:

"That's why Griffin had been proceeding with other free agents. In addition to staying in touch with Hayward, he'd made some progress with the agent who represented Chandler Parsons and felt the Cavs could structure a deal that would enable them to have a chance to sign him."
​

Gordon Hayward, fine, but Chandler Parsons! The Cavs seriously dodged a bullet there. If Lebron hadn't come back it's possible Griffin would have locked the team into one of the worst contracts in the NBA!

I also remember a rumor that if we didn't land one of them we would have offered ariza 15M a year. Griff really got lucky with lebron.

 

[RichieRichPaul]

Letting Delly get away will stop me from ever giving him an A. I think the Korver thing was ok. I feel like we would have been better off with Pj tucker for that first.

Ill he interested to see what the off season brings. I think Channing Frye needs to go. Clearly our problem is defense and 8 mill would be better spent on a defensive big. I dont think we need two stretch bigs who cant protect the rim. Frye amazes me how bad he is sometimes. Youd think a guy his size could alter a shot or two.

 

[Sumac13]

Random thought here: I wonder how much Griffin's emphasis on offensive carries over from his experience with the Sun's under the D'Antoni era. Offensively great. Defensively offensive.

I hated to see Delly go. The team's defense seems to communicate a lot less when out on the floor.

 

[Rich]

Yea he's pushed all the wrong buttons this year.

Shumpert completely out of the rotation it seems. So unless that changes, his value will be way, waaay below what it was just a few months ago, or last summer.

Derrick Williams completely out of the rotation. Meanwhile, Lance.........yea, not a great season out of Griffin. No other way to put it.

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

Yea he's pushed all the wrong buttons this year.

Shumpert completely out of the rotation it seems. So unless that changes, his value will be way, waaay below what it was just a few months ago, or last summer.

Derrick Williams completely out of the rotation. Meanwhile, Lance.........yea, not a great season out of Griffin. No other way to put it.

Lance ended up signing for $4 million a year though. Not sure how long Indiana has been talking to him, but those ten day contracts could have easily been to get in game shape while he was talking to Indy(who has known they wanted to cut Stuckey)for awhile. My buddy with the Knicks told me this theory the day after they signed him. Said the Knicks were interested in Lance but he wasn't interested in a minimum deal. Could be untrue, so take it FWIW. Just a thought though. Might not have been possible to get Lance on a minimum deal.

I think Korver was a great move. He.is going to be an important piece in the postseason. Indiana sold out to stop him last night. He needs to see more time though. And just because Lue is favoring RJ in the playoffs doesn't mean DWill was a bad move. He gave us a much needed boost during the season.