Tax Reform

[KI4MVP]

Not gonna lie, the tax cuts would be good for me and my company - it's one of the reasons I haven't been as vocal in this thread... But I do think they're the wrong direction for the country.

I say that because I don't think the economy will grow sufficiently to cover the revenue shortfall. I also don't think the GOP won't immediately attempt to rob the safety net for the less advantaged like the elderly and disabled or the poor.

Effectively, I'm against this kind of wealth consolidation on the backs of poor people and the middle class. I'm not sure why most middle class people, let alone anyone who is poor, would support such a bill. It's not in their best interest.

You said it's good for your company, does that mean you expect your company to grow because of the tax cut?

Do you think the economy will grow because of the tax cut?

How much does the economy have to grow, which both adds to tax revenues and reduces entitlement spending to cover the cost of the tax cut?

 

[gourimoko]

You said it's good for your company, does that mean you expect your company to grow because of the tax cut?

We're already growing... We'll see how much of the difference we can actualize, but, I'm expecting quite a bit... I won't be reinvesting that money in the States though; most of any expansion will be spent overseas.

Do you think the economy will grow because of the tax cut?

In the short-term yes, I do...

How much does the economy have to grow, which both adds to tax revenues and reduces entitlement spending to cover the cost of the tax cut?

Well, from the vast majority of analyses that I've read, most peg this tax cut as costing taxpayers on average around $5-6T over 10 years.

Now, if you're asking me is that increased debt worth the expected increase in economic growth in the short-term? I would say no, it's not. I would argue that you could achieve a LOT more for $6T/10Y. A national infrastructure program, a high-speed rail system, a clean energy infrastructure bill, hell, a proposal to build a bunch of nuclear power plants to bring down energy costs and subsidize an electric car market ...

Universal health care.... think about the economic advantages of a true universal health care program.

There's so much that could be done with six trillion dollars. Not to mention the negative effects of repealing the individual mandate....

Again, I just don't think this bill, as constructed, is good policy. And I say that as someone who is all for lowering the corporate rate to 20%.

 

[-Akronite-]

Are you saying you're this neutral guy; let's not make this about me? I'm just wondering because for years it wasn't a big deal to the left, but now it is now that they get to keep more of their money.

The left tends to favor increased taxes to pay for increase social programs. The right tends to want tax cuts and spending reduction. Depending on specific policies/departments, they both have their own priorities.

The GOP has bitched about the debt, the deficit, and the outrageous spending of the left (for decades, let alone the last 8 years). But now we are seeing a huge tax cut from the right without any way of recouping that money other than overzealous assumptions about the boon it may give to the economy. It's as if it never mattered what happened with the debt and it was just a political disagreement.

As much as it is a both ways issue (I'm sure there are Dems that poo-pooed any worrying about the debt before and now cry foul), it's kinda funny to see it framed as if the Dems are the hypocrites here. At worst, this is a "both sides" issue. But honestly, this seems more like a GOP problem. How much did Dems talk about the debt before? Not much. But the GOP talked about it all the time and now they are going back on that bullshit because clearly no one cares about the debt as long as they get what they want (from an establishment perspective, I'm sure plenty of people give a real shit)

And if you agree that it goes both ways, then the hypocrisy also lies with you since you brought it up.

 

[gourimoko]

The left tends to favor increased taxes to pay for increase social programs. The right tends to want tax cuts and spending reduction. Depending on specific policies/departments, they both have their own priorities.

The GOP has bitched about the debt, the deficit, and the outrageous spending of the left (for decades, let alone the last 8 years). But now we are seeing a huge tax cut from the right without any way of recouping that money other than overzealous assumptions about the boon it may give to the economy. It's as if it never mattered what happened with the debt and it was just a political disagreement.

As much as it is a both ways issue (I'm sure there are Dems that poo-pooed any worrying about the debt before and now cry foul), it's kinda funny to see it framed as if the Dems are the hypocrites here. At worst, this is a "both sides" issue. But honestly, this seems more like a GOP problem. How much did Dems talk about the debt before? Not much. But the GOP talked about it all the time and now they are going back on that bullshit because clearly no one cares about the debt as long as they get what they want (from an establishment perspective, I'm sure plenty of people give a real shit)

And if you agree that it goes both ways, then the hypocrisy also lies with you since you brought it up.

I just thought it was odd considering the Bush Presidency was 17 years ago and I thought the notion that modern conservatives gave a damn about the debt went out the door with him.

 

[Binkster]

I thought this was satire.
View: https://twitter.com/pdmcleod/status/943221066171912192

 

[gourimoko]

I thought this was satire.
View: https://twitter.com/pdmcleod/status/943221066171912192

She knows she's got 2 years left... She knows she's very likely out in 2020... So this is her way of assuring herself a lucrative corporate position.

 

[-Akronite-]

I just thought it was odd considering the Bush Presidency was 17 years ago and I thought the notion that modern conservatives gave a damn about the debt went out the door with him.

As soon as Obama came in they went right back to it unfortunately.

 

[caf]

No one cares what happens 10 years from now?? What kinda shit???

A majority of public schools in Ohio have no tax to fund them in 2027!

Aren't you guys worried about the children????

 

[Hurl Bruce]

The big winners of the tax plan look like this

View: https://twitter.com/adamjohnsonNYC/status/943368771988795392


(He's a Koch)

 

[MRMsix6]

The big winners of the tax plan look like this

View: https://twitter.com/adamjohnsonNYC/status/943368771988795392


(He's a Koch)

I'm not sure what's so funny??? This guy makes my favorite yacht shirts.

 

[caf]

AT&T is giving $1,000 bonuses to 200,000 employees after tax bill

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/20/tax-reform-reaction-att-is-giving-bonuses-to-200000-employees.html

I wonder how pissed the liberal AT&T workers are getting a nice fat bonus. Oh well, they can wipe their tears with Benjamin's.

 

[KI4MVP]

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/20/tax-reform-reaction-att-is-giving-bonuses-to-200000-employees.html

I wonder how pissed the liberal AT&T workers are getting a nice fat bonus. Oh well, they can wipe their tears with Benjamin's.

There's also this in that article

The company also increased its capital expenditures budget by $1 billion in the U.S.
​

 

[Maximus]

FedEx says new tax cuts could boost annual profits by $1.3 billion


By Abha Bhattarai December 20 at 12:11 PM
The president has yet to sign the Republican tax plan, but FedEx is already calculating its windfall.

Executives at the package delivery company say the passage of the bill, which promises massive cuts to the corporate tax rate, would prompt the company to increase spending on hiring, as well as new equipment and technology. The company also projects the changes to amount to a $1.3 billion increase in annual profits, according to calculations by Bloomberg.

“We’re encouraged by the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act legislation advancing in Congress at this very moment,” Frederick Smith, the chairman of FedEx, said in the call. “This legislation offers pro-growth, pro-business tax reform solutions that will power the economy.”

 

[The Process God]

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/20/tax-reform-reaction-att-is-giving-bonuses-to-200000-employees.html

I wonder how pissed the liberal AT&T workers are getting a nice fat bonus. Oh well, they can wipe their tears with Benjamin's.

This conflicts with past actions of AT&T actions when they were given tax breaks, where they've cut thousands of jobs and began contracting with third parties for stores/workers rather than making them AT&T workers in order to avoid paying benefits. All of that money just went to the fat cats.

Hopefully this goes through.

 

[caf]

Wells Fargo, Fifth Third Bancorp unveil minimum wage hikes after tax bill passage

• Fifth Third and AT&T are paying employees special bonuses after getting tax cuts under the Republican tax plan.
• Wells Fargo said Wednesday that it would boost minimum wages for employees to $15 an hour, following Fifth Third's similar announcement.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/20/fif...minimum-wage-hike-after-tax-bill-passage.html

Another terrible result of the tax plan. Bonuses and raises... Such a shame.