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The Finances and Debt Thread

Do Not Sell My Personal Information
Yes, but if you can do both, you solve the problem sooner.

I never, ever pay credit card interest, but I run as much spending I'm going to do anyway through credit cards to get the rewards. Usually 2% cash back. It takes discipline, though, to not spend more than you can pay. If you don't pay attention, it's easy to lose track. Even if you check your balance, it doesn't include pending charges.

But if you do it right, the credit card companies float you an ongoing interest free loan and pay you money to do it. Do it wrong and they bleed you.
Again: that's the mathematically correct answer, but personal finance is much more about psychology. Somebody who cares so much about the math isn't getting in tens of thousands of dollars of consumer debt in the first place. Telling somebody who is $25K in debt to consolidate the debt into a lower interest personal loan ... in my mind, that's like giving a box of matches to an arsonist.

My wife and I don't use credit cards. Using credit cards in the manner you describe (buy everything on CCs, then pay off the bill in full, and collect whatever cash-back perks you can) requires two (potentially three) things to be true:

1. You are indeed paying off the balance in full each month (and, as a corollary, have enough put aside to weather any reasonable storms - a job loss, a short-term disability, a global pandemic that turns the world off for four months, etc.).
2. You are not spending more with cards than you would be with cash.
3. If you're married, your spouse is also not spending more with cards than otherwise.

#1 was never an issue for us when we did use cards. #2 and #3 were the eye-openers (#2 more so). No matter how disciplined I may like to think I am, I spent more when I used cards than cash.

You sound like you've got discipline to burn, so I'm sure that it works for you. I would just caution against assuming that other people have that same discipline, when you're probably in the 99th percentile.
 
#1 was never an issue for us when we did use cards. #2 and #3 were the eye-openers (#2 more so). No matter how disciplined I may like to think I am, I spent more when I used cards than cash.

This was eye opening to me when I tried to do this as a married 20 something guy. When we used our debit cards to pay for everything, we came out ok every month. When we tried the credit card route then pay the 1 balance at the end of the month, we always seemed to be underwater. I could never figure it out.

3. If you're married, your spouse is also not spending more with cards than otherwise.
I'm pretty sure this was the issue. Now that I'm divorced, I don't have this issue as I'm back to using the credit card and making 1 payment. I seem to be just fine every month. I never understood how she could go to Marcs on Tuesday, spend $150 there. Giant Eagle on Wednesday spend another $200 then go to Sam's Club on Thursday and somehow manage to buy $200. I have growing boys but c'mon, we don't eat that much food.

If you can be disciplined, the Credit Card route is the best way. You accumulate the rewards that you can use elsewhere. I like using hotel or airline credit cards, helps off set the cost of vacations.
 
Telling somebody who is $25K in debt to consolidate the debt into a lower interest personal loan ... in my mind, that's like giving a box of matches to an arsonist.
The person who pays off their $25k in credit card debt with a personal loan now has $25k free on their credit cards. A Black Friday tv, spa day for the wife and Christmas toys their kids *had* to have and pretty soon they have $25k in credit card debt and a $25k personal loan.
 
The person who pays off their $25k in credit card debt with a personal loan now has $25k free on their credit cards. A Black Friday tv, spa day for the wife and Christmas toys their kids *had* to have and pretty soon they have $25k in credit card debt and a $25k personal loan.

They have also made their credit go up probably 50+ points and should look to refi that personal loan into more favorable terms in a couple of months.

Getting out of debt can take several steps. Its sort of one of the things i do for a living.
 
Again: that's the mathematically correct answer, but personal finance is much more about psychology. Somebody who cares so much about the math isn't getting in tens of thousands of dollars of consumer debt in the first place. Telling somebody who is $25K in debt to consolidate the debt into a lower interest personal loan ... in my mind, that's like giving a box of matches to an arsonist.

Yes, you have to have the discipline to use the money you're saving in interest to pay down debt. A $25k credit card debt is lighting roughly $500/month on fire.

The thing I do, both for our personal finances and for our company finances is I make a spreadsheet that goes months into the future with bank balance, income and expense for each day. I can either have, say, the insurance bill be an expense against the bank account the day it's due, or have it be an expense against the bank account when the credit card statement is due. I go about a year out because I have some expenses that are yearly that I have to account for and make sure those can be paid when they are due. Either way it's going to be projected as a payment from the bank account. It takes a few minutes to update, and as long as I adjust the next month's credit card statement to match anything extra we're spending, once it's updated we know exactly where we are.

It's not today's checking account balance that matters, it's the projection for the next two months.

A very important thing to pay attention to is the difference between what happens with online balances when you buy something with a debit card and what happens when you buy something with a credit card. Use a debit card and the expense is instantly deducted from your balance. Buy something with a credit card and it isn't instantly added to the balance.

This is where people struggle. It's easy to check your checking account balance and it's easy to understand that can't go below $0.00. Buy something with a debit card and you instantly can see the update, even if you forget buying it. Buy something with a credit card and it takes some work to see where you're at. You have to add the pending balance to the balance to know what you've actually spent. And have to do some math to know how close to your max spend for the month you're at. It doesn't take any math to see how close a checking account is to zero (or whatever buffer amount you give yourself).

It may help to flip it. Track a balance of what you can spend that month, subtract out everything you've spent including pending balances, subtract out all recurring future charges, and treat it just like your checking account. It can't go to zero. Do it with a spreadsheet you can open on your phone. Treat it exactly like a debit card.

It takes some work and some discipline. As a parent I'm pretty shocked that schools don't seem to teach anything about personal finance. My son bought a house, had some work done and then had some things in the house break that had to be repaired. He was downing in credit card debt. I spent a few months with him helping him build and track a spreadsheet to get out of debt and minimize the interest he paid in the process. Several times he wanted to pay one thing and I showed him how much money it would save to do it a different way. He got out of debt months before he would have otherwise and now has the tools to make sure that doesn't happen.

I have other kids who need me to do that for them, but who won't let me look at their finances so I can help them. And I have other kids who figured it all out on their own and never needed my help. (we have 6 kids)
 
Yes, you have to have the discipline to use the money you're saving in interest to pay down debt. A $25k credit card debt is lighting roughly $500/month on fire.

The thing I do, both for our personal finances and for our company finances is I make a spreadsheet that goes months into the future with bank balance, income and expense for each day. I can either have, say, the insurance bill be an expense against the bank account the day it's due, or have it be an expense against the bank account when the credit card statement is due. I go about a year out because I have some expenses that are yearly that I have to account for and make sure those can be paid when they are due. Either way it's going to be projected as a payment from the bank account. It takes a few minutes to update, and as long as I adjust the next month's credit card statement to match anything extra we're spending, once it's updated we know exactly where we are.

It's not today's checking account balance that matters, it's the projection for the next two months.

A very important thing to pay attention to is the difference between what happens with online balances when you buy something with a debit card and what happens when you buy something with a credit card. Use a debit card and the expense is instantly deducted from your balance. Buy something with a credit card and it isn't instantly added to the balance.

This is where people struggle. It's easy to check your checking account balance and it's easy to understand that can't go below $0.00. Buy something with a debit card and you instantly can see the update, even if you forget buying it. Buy something with a credit card and it takes some work to see where you're at. You have to add the pending balance to the balance to know what you've actually spent. And have to do some math to know how close to your max spend for the month you're at. It doesn't take any math to see how close a checking account is to zero (or whatever buffer amount you give yourself).

It may help to flip it. Track a balance of what you can spend that month, subtract out everything you've spent including pending balances, subtract out all recurring future charges, and treat it just like your checking account. It can't go to zero. Do it with a spreadsheet you can open on your phone. Treat it exactly like a debit card.

It takes some work and some discipline. As a parent I'm pretty shocked that schools don't seem to teach anything about personal finance. My son bought a house, had some work done and then had some things in the house break that had to be repaired. He was downing in credit card debt. I spent a few months with him helping him build and track a spreadsheet to get out of debt and minimize the interest he paid in the process. Several times he wanted to pay one thing and I showed him how much money it would save to do it a different way. He got out of debt months before he would have otherwise and now has the tools to make sure that doesn't happen.

I have other kids who need me to do that for them, but who won't let me look at their finances so I can help them. And I have other kids who figured it all out on their own and never needed my help. (we have 6 kids)

I hope both my kids help me with their finances when they get the appropriate age. My son is 16, trying to teach lessons, but not their yet. Daughter is in college at 19 and is extremely frugal and good with her money so far. I help her and have access to all of her money. She is on a pretty tight budget for college and yet comes in under budget every month so far. Very proud of her in lots of ways, but that is one of them for sure.

I am hoping my son learns some lessons from her, they are close and he does listen. He is a great kid too, but you never know as they grow up.
 
I accidentally missed b2b mortgage payments last year (second "miss" was late by a few days). Just a complete oversight. Credit dropped like 80 points and I've been building it back up.

My f'ing mortgage keeps getting bought and sold, most recently in Sept. OK, changed my billing info in Huntington, paid two months of new mortgage, no problem.

I'm horrible about opening my mail, it was only last week that I opened a letter from Huntington saying "Oh by the way we cancelled your mortgage payments the last two months because we thought they were fraud. You didn't respond to an email to authorize payment."

FUCK YOU

Went through emails, the only seemingly relevant ones were "You have a new security message." These are always just "you logged in from an unregistered device" because for whatever reason, despite telling me it to register the device, it never does. So I must have ignored it.

Now I'm on day 62 of the 60 day grace period. Called Huntington last night, "Try to pay the bill again, you will get an email prompt and will have to call us back with the number in the email"....never got an email

FUCK YOU

Been paying a mortgage every month for 8-9 years, the last four years being the exact same amount every month, and now it's fraud? And no text or phone call? Just a message in the hub, not even a "Security Message", it's in the "Other Messages" next to value-added shit like "Statement Available" and "We changed our EULA"

Might just move everything to Discover
 
I used an app like that back in the day, You Need a Budget (YNAB) where you can add known expenses (monthly rent, food budget, cell phone, cable, gas, six month auto insurance, doctor's appointments, etc) and it would forecast out your budget and savings account into the future.
 
I accidentally missed b2b mortgage payments last year (second "miss" was late by a few days). Just a complete oversight. Credit dropped like 80 points and I've been building it back up.
I had that with credit cards I didn't actively use. My landlord died right before covid. His family would pick up the mail while I was at work and deliver to me every week or two when they felt like it. I was about to move so I forwarded my mailing address to a P.O. box.

The annual fees came up for two Capital One cards. I didn't open the statements since I knew I wasn't using them. The auto payments didn't go through when Capital One received the address update. The late payments were more than the annual fees and I opened the mail on a Saturday day 33 late on card #1 and day 30 late on card #2 but the payments didn't process until the Monday after which was day 32 on the 2nd card. I called Capital One and they wouldn't waive the late notifications to the credit bureaus.

I was moving around debt on 0% interest cards. Credit limits reduced on all my cards, went from 9% utilization to over 20% overnight. Dropped my credit 120 points as I was looking for a new place. Still have 3 1/2 years before those roll off.
 
I had that with credit cards I didn't actively use. My landlord died right before covid. His family would pick up the mail while I was at work and deliver to me every week or two when they felt like it. I was about to move so I forwarded my mailing address to a P.O. box.

The annual fees came up for two Capital One cards. I didn't open the statements since I knew I wasn't using them. The auto payments didn't go through when Capital One received the address update. The late payments were more than the annual fees and I opened the mail on a Saturday day 33 late on card #1 and day 30 late on card #2 but the payments didn't process until the Monday after which was day 32 on the 2nd card. I called Capital One and they wouldn't waive the late notifications to the credit bureaus.

I was moving around debt on 0% interest cards. Credit limits reduced on all my cards, went from 9% utilization to over 20% overnight. Dropped my credit 120 points as I was looking for a new place. Still have 3 1/2 years before those roll off.
That’s exactly why I don’t dick around with credit cards. I don’t want to have to put any brain energy into dealing with CC companies on any level. I don’t want to inadvertently miss a notice and then get socked with fees. It’s not about intelligence. You don’t strike me as a dummy at all, and yet you got burned. It’s easy to miss something like that.

Do we lose out on rewards? I guess so. I couldn’t care less. Our spending is less using cash/debit, and we do sometimes get discounts for using cash, so that more than makes up for some missed cash back or airline miles. It’s worked well for us, and I’m very happy with where we are financially.

Ultimately, it’s about whatever makes you sleep the best at night. That’s what puts the personal in personal finance.
 
Easiest way to shop term life insurance?
 
Easiest way to shop term life insurance?
Have you tried a comparison site like Select Quote? I haven’t shopped life insurance in a long time, but that’s probably where I’d start.
 
Have you tried a comparison site like Select Quote? I haven’t shopped life insurance in a long time, but that’s probably where I’d start.
I ended up using Policygenius, so high praise for this site from multiple places
 
Not sure if this is the right place but I was just curious what people thought about a 529 vs a HYSA in terms of starting one up for a young child? Would really like to make sound financial decisions to set my kid(s) up for success, just as my parents did for my brother and I, and with the economic outlook and ridiculous costs of education and living in general, I thought one of these might be a good idea to contribute to for the next 18 years.

Sorry if already discussed.
 
529 Plan.
Grows tax free if you use the money for higher education expenses.
You can also use $10k per year for private high school.
And if you don't use it, new rules within the Secure Act 2.0 allow you to move up to $35k into a Roth IRA in that beneficiary's name.

And even if you just want to cash it out and buy a Ferrari, you can do that.
Just pay taxes on the gains (which you would normally) and a 10% penalty
 

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Episode 3:14: " Time for Playoff Vengeance on Mickey."
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