The General Terrorist Rampage Thread

[David.]

Yeah, I saw the Sarsour stuff and assumed that's what you were referring to. I think the controversy comes from people not posting her full quotes.

"You can count on me every single day to use my voice to stand up, not only to people outside our community who are oppressing our communities, but those inside our community who aid and abet the oppressors outside our community.There is a man who once asked our beloved prophet … has said to him, “What is the best form of jihad or struggle?”

And our beloved prophet … said to him, “A word of truth in front of a tyrant or leader, that is the best form of jihad.”

I hope, that when we stand up to those who oppress our communities, that Allah accepts us as a form of jihad, that we are struggling against tyrants and rulers not only abroad in the Middle East or the other side of the world, but here in the United States of America, where you have fascists and white supremacists and Islamophobes reigning in the White House."

I don't know how you can read that and interpret violence in any way whatsoever. But I don't think that's the point you're making anyway. What are the words that you feel the left are manipulating in that sense?

Is this where we pretend one definition is how everyone perceives it? As if feminism is actually egalitarianism?

I doubt I'm the one informing you that's not always how it's used.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jihadism

According to the classical Sharia law manual of Shafi'i, Reliance of the Traveller, Jihad means to war against non-Muslims, and is etymologically derived from the word mujahada signifying warfare to establish the religion.[23][page need



White - skin color.

Pride - the feeling of satisfaction with one's achievements.

So that's arguably racist, as long as we're considering black history month racist as well. But Im going to guess that's not how you see white pride? If your argument is that other people can't define your words for you, again, that's ringing a deafening bell.

So let's see some consistency?

 

[kosis]

Is this where we pretend one definition is how everyone perceives it? As if feminism is actually egalitarianism?

I doubt I'm the one informing you that's not always how it's used.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jihadism

According to the classical Sharia law manual of Shafi'i, Reliance of the Traveller, Jihad means to war against non-Muslims, and is etymologically derived from the word mujahada signifying warfare to establish the religion.[23][page need



White - skin color.

Pride - the feeling of satisfaction with one's achievements.

So that's arguably racist, as long as we're considering black history month racist as well. But Im going to guess that's not how you see white pride? If your argument is that other people can't define your words for you, again, that's ringing a deafening bell.

So let's see some consistency?

I feel like this post is a bit defensive, but I legitimately was curious as to what you meant.

Re: jihad, it's a word that literally means "struggle", and is an important concept to all Muslims, so I'm sorry if Muslims like Sarsour use the word for what it was meant to mean. Pretty silly to suggest that this concept can be hijacked (no pun) by terrorists or people that don't understand Islam. For a country full of people that hate terror, they certainly let terrorists dictate almost all and everything about Islam. It's pretty remarkable, really.

As dictated in the Qur'an, the greater jihads are the struggle against oneself and the struggle against Satan and hate. These are things Muslims keep in mind every day. The third is against the open enemy. I suppose you can say the third is what people outside of the religion want to focus on, but even then it's specific enough to require the stipulation of self-defense and protection of religious rights. Don't intend on making an interpretation of the Book post, so I'll stop there, but suffice to say that jihad is an important concept that is far from being all that obtuse or controversial to Muslims. So not only did Sarsour use the word correctly, she explained the meaning just so folks who didn't understand wouldn't misconstrue... and they did anyway. Says much more about the audience than the word, IMO.

So your argument is that white pride should be something we're fine with, if we're fine with using the word jihad for its true meaning? I think there's layers to that argument... more than just defining a word.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Another terrorist incident in New York....

Jesus Painting Left on Islamic Center Investigated as Hate Crime

A large painting of Jesus on the cross was left at a Long Island Islamic center and police are investigating it as a hate crime.....

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loca...ter-Investigated-as-Hate-Crime-433432283.html

 

[Huber.]

Another terrorist incident in New York....

Jesus Painting Left on Islamic Center Investigated as Hate Crime

A large painting of Jesus on the cross was left at a Long Island Islamic center and police are investigating it as a hate crime.....

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loca...ter-Investigated-as-Hate-Crime-433432283.html

Leaving a painting of a Muslim prophet on a Muslim church is now a hate crime?

 

[AZ_]

If the son of the President just admitted to attempted collusion with a known Russian agent while trying to scrounge up damaging info on his father's electoral opponent, I'd definitely want to talk about this too.

 

[David.]

If the son of the President just admitted to attempted collusion with a known Russian agent while trying to scrounge up damaging info on his father's electoral opponent, I'd definitely want to talk about this too.

Do you know what thread youre in?

Jesus christ. Plenty of tweets to post elsewhere, I'm sure.

You heard him guys. We have to talk about dt Jr. Sorry.

 

[Huber.]

Do you know what thread youre in?

Jesus christ. Plenty of tweets to post elsewhere, I'm sure.

You heard him guys. We have to talk about dt Jr. Sorry.

How many bottles of hair gel do you think he goes through in a year?

 

[David.]

How many bottles of hair gel do you think he goes through in a year?

Less than me :/

 

[kosis]

Another terrorist incident in New York....

Jesus Painting Left on Islamic Center Investigated as Hate Crime

A large painting of Jesus on the cross was left at a Long Island Islamic center and police are investigating it as a hate crime.....

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loca...ter-Investigated-as-Hate-Crime-433432283.html

Are these the same guys that leave bacon wrapped around door handles at mosques? Wish we had the foresight to tell people we really HATE money, Ultra Boosts and Sour Patch Kids.

 

[gourimoko]

I feel like this post is a bit defensive, but I legitimately was curious as to what you meant.

Re: jihad, it's a word that literally means "struggle", and is an important concept to all Muslims, so I'm sorry if Muslims like Sarsour use the word for what it was meant to mean. Pretty silly to suggest that this concept can be hijacked (no pun) by terrorists or people that don't understand Islam. For a country full of people that hate terror, they certainly let terrorists dictate almost all and everything about Islam. It's pretty remarkable, really.

As dictated in the Qur'an, the greater jihads are the struggle against oneself and the struggle against Satan and hate. These are things Muslims keep in mind every day. The third is against the open enemy. I suppose you can say the third is what people outside of the religion want to focus on, but even then it's specific enough to require the stipulation of self-defense and protection of religious rights. Don't intend on making an interpretation of the Book post, so I'll stop there, but suffice to say that jihad is an important concept that is far from being all that obtuse or controversial to Muslims. So not only did Sarsour use the word correctly, she explained the meaning just so folks who didn't understand wouldn't misconstrue... and they did anyway. Says much more about the audience than the word, IMO.

So your argument is that white pride should be something we're fine with, if we're fine with using the word jihad for its true meaning? I think there's layers to that argument... more than just defining a word.

Did you notice how your previous post about Sansour's actual quote was not actually addressed? Like, not even for a second. We somehow got to the use of the phrase "White Pride," without addressing her comments in context?

Instead, we see a diversion from about feminism not being egalitarianism?? How does "feminism" have anything to do with terrorism? (Also, @David. why not tag me if you don't understand the original context of our initial conversation?)... and with respect to this comparison, Dave, you've somehow warped my words into something completely different - something I did not say... dunno if you mean to do that deliberately, or...?

But for clarity's sake; I said (modern) progressivism entails egalitarianism. I did not say anything close to what you're implying here with the phrase: "feminism is actually egalitarianism."

Somehow, you've conflated/confused "progressivism" which is a much broader idea and ideology with feminism, which is far narrower in scope. Feminism does not entail or even imply an egalitarian end; progressivism does.

Just thought I'd clear that up... Also, I'll take this time to point out the comedic value of this thread having become the debunk latest Facebook Muslim scare tactic thread.

 

[AZ_]

Do you know what thread youre in?

Jesus christ. Plenty of tweets to post elsewhere, I'm sure.

You heard him guys. We have to talk about dt Jr. Sorry.

Do you know what thread you're in?

You're cool with this non-terror related incident being in the thread, but me making a joke about how much conservatives want to change the subject is a bridge too far.

Sorry for diverting from this act of terror, by all means give us your take.

 

[David.]

Did you notice how your previous post about Sansour's actual quote was not actually addressed? Like, not even for a second. We somehow got to the use of the phrase "White Pride," without addressing her comments in context?

Instead, we see a diversion from about feminism not being egalitarianism?? How does "feminism" have anything to do with terrorism? (Also, @David. why not tag me if you don't understand the original context of our initial conversation?)... and with respect to this comparison, Dave, you've somehow warped my words into something completely different - something I did not say... dunno if you mean to do that deliberately, or...?

But for clarity's sake; I said (modern) progressivism entails egalitarianism. I did not say anything close to what you're implying here with the phrase: "feminism is actually egalitarianism."

Somehow, you've conflated/confused "progressivism" which is a much broader idea and ideology with feminism, which is far narrower in scope. Feminism does not entail or even imply an egalitarian end; progressivism does.

Just thought I'd clear that up... Also, I'll take this time to point out the comedic value of this thread having become the debunk latest Facebook Muslim scare tactic thread.

Because discussing anything with you doesn't seem to be in good faith and we pretend reality isn't reality.

I didn't address kosis post because I'm aware of the nuance, and I'm aware of the double standard. There's not much anything else to say about it. You can come up with some distinction if you want between jihad as used by extremists that sarsour started her speech off referencing and other words that you say have flags permanently planted in them, but I don't buy it. It's the same thing.

So rather than play games with you, I'll make my points and you can agree or disagree. I don't need to run everything by you dude, no one does. You and AZ aren't Hall monitors of the board. You can use unpleasant tones with people as a weapon, call everyone irrational and say we don't understand your position all you want. You're not flipping peoples opinions by engaging in discussion this way, you're discouraging people from discussing anything with you at all.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Are these the same guys that leave bacon wrapped around door handles at mosques? Wish we had the foresight to tell people we really HATE money, Ultra Boosts and Sour Patch Kids.

No, these people did not leave a bacon-wrapped door handle. They left a picture of Jesus, which most rational people would consider, at most, an attempt at proselytizing. That's supposed to be legal in this country.

 

[gourimoko]

Because discussing anything with you doesn't seem to be in good faith and we pretend reality isn't reality.

So you post inaccurate and nonsensical quotes derived from conversations with me? C'mon man...

How was our conversation in the Bias Media thread in anyway not in good faith? Because I didn't instantly and effortlessly agree with your worldview a priori? I asked you to flesh out your ideas in a rational manner so that could be understood and you decided that was too much...

I didn't address kosis post because I'm aware of the nuance, and I'm aware of the double standard. There's not much anything else to say about it. You can come up with some distinction if you want between jihad as used by extremists that sarsour started her speech off referencing and other words that you say have flags permanently planted in them, but I don't buy it. It's the same thing.

So wait, you think Sarsour was suggesting waging holy war, in a physical sense, against Trump?

Honestly, I'm confused by your statement here... it seems obvious from her context that's not what she meant, so ... hence the confusion???

So rather than play games with you, I'll make my points and you can agree or disagree.

No one's playing any game with you... You can choose to dismiss scrutiny of your opinions if that makes you feel better, but, you might want to reconsider who isn't discussing ideas in good faith at this point.

I don't need to run everything by you dude, no one does.

Who said you did? (odd thing to say, don't you think?)

You and AZ aren't Hall monitors of the board.

Who ever suggested myself or @AZ_ were "hall monitors?" I'm not really sure what it is you're talking about?

You can use unpleasant tones with people as a weapon,

So ... so wait... the "tones" of my written text, can be used as a "weapon?" Odd coming from you man, I mean.. considering your opinions..

call everyone irrational

But I don't call "everyone" irrational. (You have a tendency of substituting your name out and "everyone" in, btw)...

I FWIW, don't use the term to describe people, but poorly constructed arguments; and it's not an insult, it's an invitation to critically assess one's opinions.

and say we don't understand your position all you want.

But I think many folks do understand my positions; I don't think my positions on topics is all that complex... Also, again, I don't know who the "we" is in this statement -- again, you have a tendency to speak in the first-person plural with "we," and "everyone."

You're not flipping peoples opinions by engaging in discussion this way, you're discouraging people from discussing anything with you at all.

Would you be surprised if I told you I get PM's from users who do not post much in these forums who appreciate my posts?

With that said, I think my positive post rating history and post/rating ratio for a non-mod/insider speaks volumes to how many people actually like what I post, rather than the reverse...

Also, you should avoid speaking for "everyone" because "everyone" doesn't agree with you, David. Try speaking for yourself.... just try it.. it'll work better..

Here, let's reconstruct what you've said here into the first-person:

You (modified): "You're not flipping my opinions by engaging in discussion this way; you're discouraging me from discussing anything with you at all."

That's better.... I think that's more meaningful, too..

And so, I would retort here that, in this thread, I'm in a discussion with the thread, responding to @kosis' post (not yours) about the "feminism" reference that he probably looked at like "WTF?" (Also the 'White Pride' reference was funny)... My discussion with you was in the Bias Media thread, and I wasn't in anyway unpleasant or untoward with you... You got amped up and seemed highly emotionally invested in an argument about feminism and progressivism that .. made little sense. I tried discussing things with you dispassionately, and that didn't work.. So here, I see your post as one requiring a response, and here we are.

Now, if you'd like to pick up where we left off in the Bias thread; have at it... If you have some friendly suggestions about how I might present ideas in a way that's more conducive to you hearing them, PM me. Otherwise, I'm not sure what more is to be said?

 

[kosis]

No, these people did not leave a bacon-wrapped door handle. They left a picture of Jesus, which most rational people would consider, at most, an attempt at proselytizing. That's supposed to be legal in this country.

Yeah, I know.

For the record, I don't really care about that stuff. The bacon thing happened at my mosque and most of us shook our heads and laughed it off. A few people got pissed, but that was clearly the intent of the bacon militia. Bacon won the day.

I think it's odd that people would leave a crucified Jesus at a mosque, but I'm not sure you can get punished for it. Clearly the intent is to incite (Muslims obviously believe that Jesus was a prophet and was not killed, hence the crucifixion stuff being problematic) by leaving that at another religion's house of worship, but I dunno where you draw the line between inciting (in today's climate) and proselytizing, as you say.

If some Satanic org left a photo of God, Mary, Jesus, etc... with decapitated heads at the church doorstep, I honestly don't know what the ruling on something like that would be. *shrugs* Leaving a Bible or something like that would be different, so I'm not sure.