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The ISIS offensive in Iraq

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Uh, do you even know how those sanctions even came to be in the first place?

Because they failed to stop enriching uranium?

I see your point. Your assumption is based on precedent. Mine is based on the terms of the new deal they have signed.

Either way, I shouldn't have made a tin foil hat reference. I apologize for that.
 
Because they failed to stop enriching uranium?

Because they signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Agreement, then broke it.

Either way, I shouldn't have made a tin foil hat reference. I apologize for that.

No worries, I've got thicker skin than that.
But I seriously think your assumption that Iran intended to abide by that deal for the full ten years is based naive as hell.
 
Because they signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Agreement, then broke it.



No worries, I've got thicker skin than that.
But I seriously think your assumption that Iran intended to abide by that deal for the full ten years is based naive as hell.

Probably. I hope we are already working on Plans B and C.
 
Probably. I hope we are already working on Plans B and C.

I don't think there is a B or C.

Iran will abide by that agreement (or at least try to make us think they'll abide by it) as long as they think it is in their national interest to do so.

I think that's probably about 3-4 years. They definitely want that $100+B, and they'll want to otherwise get their economy stronger and suck in foreign investment that will make those nations more reluctant to impose sanctions.

But after that, the smart move for them is to build the bomb. Because once they have it, then the genie is out of the bottle and there will be no real point in imposing sanctions. So they'll have the best of both worlds. All the regional and international power/respect from being a member of the nuclear club, and no sanctions.

What they needed was some temporary economic relief, and we gave it to them.
 
I don't think there is a B or C.

Iran will abide by that agreement (or at least try to make us think they'll abide by it) as long as they think it is in their national interest to do so.

I think that's probably about 3-4 years. They definitely want that $100+B, and they'll want to otherwise get their economy stronger and suck in foreign investment that will make those nations more reluctant to impose sanctions.

But after that, the smart move for them is to build the bomb. Because once they have it, then the genie is out of the bottle and there will be no real point in imposing sanctions. So they'll have the best of both worlds. All the regional and international power/respect from being a member of the nuclear club, and no sanctions.

What they needed was some temporary economic relief, and we gave it to them.

I guess we will have to wait and see now. But I hope we learned something from post-2003 Iraq that you need a B and a C. Especially in the middle east. Like you say, A rarely works out exactly as planned. See: "We will be greeted as liberators"
 
I'm not willing to talk admit the process the us and Afghan militaries use to decide targets on this forum. But saying you blame the president for not having a JTAC ar every corner is ignorant.

You can't have one on every corner. But the more you are forced to rely on local forces to identify targets, the greater the chance of error because it is one less competent check.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/us-troops-didnt-eyes-afghan-hospital-attack-175046686--politics.html

US troops didn't have eyes on Afghan hospital before attack

....Instead, there are mounting indications the U.S. military relied heavily on Afghan allies who resented the internationally run Doctors Without Borders hospital, which treated Afghan security forces and Taliban alike but says it refused to admit armed men.

The new evidence includes details the AP has learned about the location of American troops during the attack. The U.S. special forces unit whose commander called in the strike was under fire in the Kunduz provincial governor's compound a half-mile away from the hospital, according to a former intelligence official who has reviewed documents describing the incident. The commander could not see the medical facility — so couldn't know firsthand whether the Taliban were using it as a base — and sought the attack on the recommendation of Afghan forces, the official said.

Members of the unit have told Rep. Duncan Hunter, a California Republican who serves on the House Armed Services Committee, that they were unaware their target was a functioning hospital until the attack was over, said Joe Kasper, Hunter's spokesman.

Looking ahead, the strike raises questions about whether the U.S. military can rely on intelligence from Afghan allies in a war in which small contingents of Americans will increasingly fight with larger units of local forces....


Clearly, there was at least one fuckup higher up because the location of the hospital was known. But there was also a fuckup at the observer level, which inevitably becomes more likely than it would otherwise be because there are fewer U.S. troops on the ground to make the initial observation and request.
 
You can't have one on every corner. But the more you are forced to rely on local forces to identify targets, the greater the chance of error because it is one less competent check.

You could have ended your reply there. I don't disagree with that at all. In fact, I think it's one of the most fucked up things over there (from an air perspective)- when bombs are coming off your jet based on their intel... there are some good quotes from some of the US commanders over there that I'm not sure are public or not, but you can probably imagine what they're about. The whole process the Afghans use to verify whether people are friendlies or hostile would blow your mind. It involves a lot of simply calling people... There is no battle tracking with them.

Still, the number of JTAC's over there is not on Obama.
 
Russia says it has proof Turkey involved in Islamic State oil trade
By Maria Tsvetkova and Lidia Kelly4 hours ago

MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russia's defense ministry said on Wednesday it had proof that Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan and his family were benefiting from the illegal smuggling of oil from Islamic State-held territory in Syria and Iraq.

Moscow and Ankara have been locked in a war of words since last week when a Turkish air force jet shot down a Russian warplane near the Syrian-Turkish border, the most serious incident between Russia and a NATO state in half a century.

Erdogan responded by saying no one had the right to "slander" Turkey by accusing it of buying oil from Islamic State, and that he would stand down if such allegations were proven to be true. But speaking during a visit to Qatar, he also said he did not want relations with Moscow to worsen further.

At a briefing in Moscow, defense ministry officials displayed satellite images which they said showed columns of tanker trucks loading with oil at installations controlled by Islamic State in Syria and Iraq, and then crossing the border into neighboring Turkey.

The officials did not specify what direct evidence they had of the involvement of Erdogan and his family, an allegation that the Turkish president has vehemently denied.

"Turkey is the main consumer of the oil stolen from its rightful owners, Syria and Iraq. According to information we've received, the senior political leadership of the country - President Erdogan and his family - are involved in this criminal business," said Deputy Defence Minister Anatoly Antonov.

"Maybe I'm being too blunt, but one can only entrust control over this thieving business to one's closest associates."

"In the West, no one has asked questions about the fact that the Turkish president's son heads one of the biggest energy companies, or that his son-in-law has been appointed energy minister. What a marvelous family business!" <Mic drop>

"The cynicism of the Turkish leadership knows no limits. Look what they're doing. They went into someone else's country, they are robbing it without compunction," Antonov said.

Erdogan last week denied that Turkey procures oil from anything other than legitimate sources.


The United States said it rejected the premise that the Turkish government was in league with the militants to smuggle oil. "We frankly see no evidence, none, to support such an accusation," State Department spokesman Mark Toner said.

Erdogan has said Ankara is taking steps to prevent fuel smuggling, and he challenged anyone who accused his government of collaborating with Islamic State to prove their allegations.

On Tuesday, U.S. President Barack Obama said Turkey had made progress in sealing its border with Syria, but Islamic State was still exploiting gaps to bring in foreign fighters and sell oil.

WEAPONS FLOW

The Russian defense ministry also alleged that the same criminal networks which were smuggling oil into Turkey were also supplying weapons, equipment and training to Islamic State and other Islamist groups.

"According to our reliable intelligence data, Turkey has been carrying out such operations for a long period and on a regular basis. And most importantly, it does not plan to stop them," Sergei Rudskoy, deputy head of the Russian military's General Staff, told reporters.

The defense ministry said its surveillance revealed hundreds of tanker trucks gathering at Islamic State-controlled sites in Iraq and Syria to load up with oil, and it questioned why the U.S.-led coalition was not launching more air strikes on them.

"It's hard not to notice them," Rudskoy said of the lines of trucks shown on satellite images.

Russian officials said their country's bombing campaign had made a significant dent in Islamic State's ability to produce, refine and sell oil.

U.S. officials say coalition air strikes have destroyed hundreds of IS oil trucks while the Russian campaign has mainly targeted opponents of the Syrian government who are not from Islamic State, which is also known as ISIL.

"The irony of the Russians raising this concern is that there's plenty of evidence to indicate that the largest consumer of ISIL oil is actually Bashar al-Assad and his regime, a regime that only remains in place because it is being propped up by the Russians," White House spokesman Josh Earnest said.

The State Department's Toner said U.S. information was that Islamic State was selling oil at the wellheads to middlemen who were involved in smuggling it across the frontier into Turkey.

SMUGGLING ROUTES

Russian officials described three main routes by which they said oil and oil products were smuggled from Islamic State territory into Turkey.

The ministry said the Western route took oil produced at fields near the Syrian city of Raqqa to the settlement of Azaz on the border with Turkey.


From there the columns of tanker trucks pass through the Turkish town of Reyhanli, the ministry said, citing what it said were satellite pictures of hundreds of such trucks moving through the border crossing without obstruction.

"There is no inspection of the vehicles carried out ... on the Turkish side," said Rudskoy.

Some of the smuggled cargoes go to the Turkish domestic market, while some is exported via the Turkish Mediterranean ports of Iskenderun and Dortyol,
the ministry said.

Another main route for smuggled oil, according to the ministry, runs from Deir Ez-zour in Syria to the Syrian border crossing at Al-Qamishli. It said the trucks then took the crude for refining at the Turkish city of Batman.

A third route took oil from eastern Syria and western Iraq into the south-eastern corner of Turkey, the ministry said.

It said its satellite surveillance had captured hundreds of trucks crossing the border in that area back in the summer, and that since then there had been no reduction in the flow.

The defense ministry officials said the information they released on Wednesday was only part of the evidence they have in their possession, and that they would be releasing further intelligence in the next days and weeks.

(Additional reporting by Alexander Winning in Moscow and Lesley Wroughton and Doina Chiacu in Washington; writing by Christian Lowe; editing by Andrew Osborn, Giles Elgood and Philippa Fletcher)


I don't know what bothers me more- that Turkey is so complicit in this trade or that Batman is also a part of it.
 
Last edited:
Russia says it has proof Turkey involved in Islamic State oil trade
By Maria Tsvetkova and Lidia Kelly4 hours ago

MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russia's defense ministry said on Wednesday it had proof that Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan and his family were benefiting from the illegal smuggling of oil from Islamic State-held territory in Syria and Iraq.

Moscow and Ankara have been locked in a war of words since last week when a Turkish air force jet shot down a Russian warplane near the Syrian-Turkish border, the most serious incident between Russia and a NATO state in half a century.

Erdogan responded by saying no one had the right to "slander" Turkey by accusing it of buying oil from Islamic State, and that he would stand down if such allegations were proven to be true. But speaking during a visit to Qatar, he also said he did not want relations with Moscow to worsen further.

At a briefing in Moscow, defense ministry officials displayed satellite images which they said showed columns of tanker trucks loading with oil at installations controlled by Islamic State in Syria and Iraq, and then crossing the border into neighboring Turkey.

The officials did not specify what direct evidence they had of the involvement of Erdogan and his family, an allegation that the Turkish president has vehemently denied.

"Turkey is the main consumer of the oil stolen from its rightful owners, Syria and Iraq. According to information we've received, the senior political leadership of the country - President Erdogan and his family - are involved in this criminal business," said Deputy Defence Minister Anatoly Antonov.

"Maybe I'm being too blunt, but one can only entrust control over this thieving business to one's closest associates."

"In the West, no one has asked questions about the fact that the Turkish president's son heads one of the biggest energy companies, or that his son-in-law has been appointed energy minister. What a marvelous family business!"

"The cynicism of the Turkish leadership knows no limits. Look what they're doing. They went into someone else's country, they are robbing it without compunction," Antonov said.

Erdogan last week denied that Turkey procures oil from anything other than legitimate sources.


The United States said it rejected the premise that the Turkish government was in league with the militants to smuggle oil. "We frankly see no evidence, none, to support such an accusation," State Department spokesman Mark Toner said.

Erdogan has said Ankara is taking steps to prevent fuel smuggling, and he challenged anyone who accused his government of collaborating with Islamic State to prove their allegations.

On Tuesday, U.S. President Barack Obama said Turkey had made progress in sealing its border with Syria, but Islamic State was still exploiting gaps to bring in foreign fighters and sell oil.

WEAPONS FLOW

The Russian defense ministry also alleged that the same criminal networks which were smuggling oil into Turkey were also supplying weapons, equipment and training to Islamic State and other Islamist groups.

"According to our reliable intelligence data, Turkey has been carrying out such operations for a long period and on a regular basis. And most importantly, it does not plan to stop them," Sergei Rudskoy, deputy head of the Russian military's General Staff, told reporters.

The defense ministry said its surveillance revealed hundreds of tanker trucks gathering at Islamic State-controlled sites in Iraq and Syria to load up with oil, and it questioned why the U.S.-led coalition was not launching more air strikes on them.

"It's hard not to notice them," Rudskoy said of the lines of trucks shown on satellite images.

Russian officials said their country's bombing campaign had made a significant dent in Islamic State's ability to produce, refine and sell oil.

U.S. officials say coalition air strikes have destroyed hundreds of IS oil trucks while the Russian campaign has mainly targeted opponents of the Syrian government who are not from Islamic State, which is also known as ISIL.

"The irony of the Russians raising this concern is that there's plenty of evidence to indicate that the largest consumer of ISIL oil is actually Bashar al-Assad and his regime, a regime that only remains in place because it is being propped up by the Russians," White House spokesman Josh Earnest said.

The State Department's Toner said U.S. information was that Islamic State was selling oil at the wellheads to middlemen who were involved in smuggling it across the frontier into Turkey.

SMUGGLING ROUTES

Russian officials described three main routes by which they said oil and oil products were smuggled from Islamic State territory into Turkey.

The ministry said the Western route took oil produced at fields near the Syrian city of Raqqa to the settlement of Azaz on the border with Turkey.


From there the columns of tanker trucks pass through the Turkish town of Reyhanli, the ministry said, citing what it said were satellite pictures of hundreds of such trucks moving through the border crossing without obstruction.

"There is no inspection of the vehicles carried out ... on the Turkish side," said Rudskoy.

Some of the smuggled cargoes go to the Turkish domestic market, while some is exported via the Turkish Mediterranean ports of Iskenderun and Dortyol,
the ministry said.

Another main route for smuggled oil, according to the ministry, runs from Deir Ez-zour in Syria to the Syrian border crossing at Al-Qamishli. It said the trucks then took the crude for refining at the Turkish city of Batman.

A third route took oil from eastern Syria and western Iraq into the south-eastern corner of Turkey, the ministry said.

It said its satellite surveillance had captured hundreds of trucks crossing the border in that area back in the summer, and that since then there had been no reduction in the flow.

The defense ministry officials said the information they released on Wednesday was only part of the evidence they have in their possession, and that they would be releasing further intelligence in the next days and weeks.

(Additional reporting by Alexander Winning in Moscow and Lesley Wroughton and Doina Chiacu in Washington; writing by Christian Lowe; editing by Andrew Osborn, Giles Elgood and Philippa Fletcher)


I don't know what bothers me more- that Turkey is so complicit in this trade or that Batman is also a part of it.

"You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain...."
 
More cleansing eerily reminiscent of what happened before and during World War II... they're already targeting the weak, the elderly, gays, Christians, and Jews... go ahead and throw disabled children into that mix.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...killed-chilling-echo-Nazis.html#ixzz3uJjbwpcG

How much more depraved can ISIS get? Group's Sharia judges order children with Down's syndrome and other disabilities to be killed in chilling echo of the Nazis

ISIS have issued a fatwa which orders children with Down's syndrome and other disabilities to be killed in a chilling echo to the workings of the Nazis, it is claimed.

Sharia judges have apparently ruled that ISIS followers are authorised to 'kill newborn babies with Down's Syndrome or congenital deformities and disabled children' in their latest sickening act.

More than 38 children born with deformities and Down's syndrome, aged between one week and three months, have already been killed by lethal injection or suffocation, according to Iraqi activist group Mosul Eye.

The organisation, which released the a video report highlighting the depraved acts, said the killings took place in ISIS strongholds in Syria and Mosul, northern Iraq.

Mosul Eye said it monitored the deaths of children born with Down's syndrome and found they are mostly those of foreign fighters who married Iraqi, Syrian and Asian women.

The group said during its investigation it discovered that the fatwa was issued by one of Islamic State's Sharia judges, a Saudi judge named Abu Said Aljazrawi.


A statement from the group said: 'Through monitoring and following the death incidents of children with Down's Syndrome and congenital deformities, we were able to learn that the Shar'i Board of ISIL issued an 'Oral Fatwa' to its members authorising them to 'kill newborn babies with Down's Syndrome and congenital deformities and disabled children'.

'As if it is not enough for ISIL to kill men, women and the elderly, and now, they kill children.'

If true, it means ISIS has followed the same direction as the Nazis, who killed disabled children because they deemed them to be a 'burden on the state'.

At least 5,000 people aged under 16 were murdered during Adolf Hitler's reign of terror, with so-called special children's wards set up specifically for the killing of those who were severely mentally and physically handicapped.

Child euthanasia, the name given to the depraved murders, was a precursor to the subsequent murder of children in the concentration camps.

Responding to Mosul Eye's statement about ISIS possibly using similar methods to those in the Nazi era, hundreds replied to condemn their barbaric actions.

One user described ISIS as 'worse than the Nazis', adding: 'I have just shed tears for these babies. I have two children with special needs, my heart is breaking.

Another said: 'OMG, i see so much similarities with nazi Germany,' while another person commented: 'What danger do these poor babies impose on isil?!'
 
Well... That's something I'd like to hear Anjem Choudary speak on.
 
Well... That's something I'd like to hear Anjem Choudary speak on.

That guy is a fucking loser. I believe most American Muslims can't stand him though.
 
More cleansing eerily reminiscent of what happened before and during World War II... they're already targeting the weak, the elderly, gays, Christians, and Jews... go ahead and throw disabled children into that mix.

But they're only doing that because of American Imperialism, doncha know?

And global warming, obviously. But I'll bet that Paris accord has ISIS just trembling in their blood-stained boots now!
 
That guy is a fucking loser. I believe most American Muslims can't stand him though.

I'd agree. I think about any Muslim who isn't in favor of such strict interpretations/practice of sharia law would cringe a lot of the time he talks. I just want to hear his twisted logic dissected on TV for everyone to hear. Again.
 

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