The Official Game of Thrones [A Song of Ice and Fire] Thread (includes spoilers)

[kosis]

I just can't get behind this idea that what Daenerys did to the Tarlys was so wrong. They didn't show up to her door step asking for a "kidnapped" relative and then get burned alive. They were defeated in battle AND given the choice to surrender. Remember that Highgarden had aligned with Daenerys... they chose not to follow Olenna because they essentially couldn't stomach fighting for the Dothraki/Targaryens. Daenerys didn't even need to offer them a way out, yet she did. King Aerys would never have done anything even remotely similar. Tarlys basically asked to die. *shrugs*

 

[Chris]

I just can't get behind this idea that what Daenerys did to the Tarlys was so wrong. They didn't show up to her door step asking for a "kidnapped" relative and then get burned alive. They were defeated in battle AND given the choice to surrender. Remember that Highgarden had aligned with Daenerys... they chose not to follow Olenna because they essentially couldn't stomach fighting for the Dothraki/Targaryens. Daenerys didn't even need to offer them a way out, yet she did. King Aerys would never have done anything even remotely similar. Tarlys basically asked to die. *shrugs*

They were told to serve her, not surrender. They had already surrendered. What is to stop her from keeping them captive? The Tarlys were sworn both to Highgarden and the crown. This goes back to Jaime's monologue in Season 2. All these oaths contradict each other at some point, holding someone to them and using it to justify whatever actions is ridiculous.

I agree they still had a choice in the end and could have saved themselves by simply switching to Dany's side, but come on.

Not to keep adding on, but I find it funny I've mentioned Danaerys' hypocrisy multiple times yet nobody has addressed it yet. "I'm different from every other bloodthirsty monarch you have endured; now kneel, or die!" Mmkay. Convincing.

It's odd because Randyll is really an atrocious human. They knew that if Dany had simply burned him, nobody in the audience would really care even if it was an unjust act. So they threw in Dickon, who really didn't deserve what he got, at all.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

I just can't get behind this idea that what Daenerys did to the Tarlys was so wrong. They didn't show up to her door step asking for a "kidnapped" relative and then get burned alive. They were defeated in battle AND given the choice to surrender. Remember that Highgarden had aligned with Daenerys... they chose not to follow Olenna because they essentially couldn't stomach fighting for the Dothraki/Targaryens. Daenerys didn't even need to offer them a way out, yet she did. King Aerys would never have done anything even remotely similar. Tarlys basically asked to die. *shrugs*

How many other examples of defeated lords being burned alive in their armor have we seen in the series? Uh...one? And that was considered so horrible that it led to Robert's Rebellion and the end of Targaeryen rule.

We've seen countless other lords defeated in battle during the course of the War of the Five Kings. Generally, they either 1) join the winning side or 2) are imprisoned and/or disinherited. Killing a lord just because they were on the losing side of a battle, much less burning them alive, isn't the way things were usually done in Westeros on either side.

If they were, there is zero chance those houses would have had as long a history as they did.

 

[Cavatt]

How many other examples of defeated lords being burned alive in their armor have we seen in the series? Uh...one? And that was considered so horrible that it led to Robert's Rebellion and the end of Targaeryen rule.

We've seen countless other lords defeated in battle during the course of the War of the Five Kings. Generally, they either 1) join the winning side or 2) are imprisoned and/or disinherited. Killing a lord just because they were on the losing side of a battle, much less burning them alive, isn't the way things were usually done in Westeros on either side.

If they were, there is zero chance those houses would have had as long a history as they did.

Plenty of disrespect to go around. Ramsay was eaten by dogs, They sewed Robbs wolf head on him after killing him when invited to dinner. Never asked for surrender. Ramsay shot a boy in the back. Cersei blew up a church with all her enemies inside including her daughter in law.

I think it was out of character for Dany. She had no reason to be particularly pissed at them. I don't like characters acting weird just for the plot

 

[Jack Brickman]

I just can't get behind this idea that what Daenerys did to the Tarlys was so wrong. They didn't show up to her door step asking for a "kidnapped" relative and then get burned alive. They were defeated in battle AND given the choice to surrender. Remember that Highgarden had aligned with Daenerys... they chose not to follow Olenna because they essentially couldn't stomach fighting for the Dothraki/Targaryens. Daenerys didn't even need to offer them a way out, yet she did. King Aerys would never have done anything even remotely similar. Tarlys basically asked to die. *shrugs*

It's simply because being burned alive is a much, much more horrific death than a simple beheading or hanging. If she had just had Tarly beheaded or hanged, I doubt anyone would have really questioned it. But she just had to make a big show of it, and it kind of backfired because it made people like Tyrion start to question her rule and called back to Aerys, the kind of ruler no one wants to have back.

Plenty of disrespect to go around. Ramsay was eaten by dogs, They sewed Robbs wolf head on him after killing him when invited to dinner. Never asked for surrender. Ramsay shot a boy in the back. Cersei blew up a church with all her enemies inside including her daughter in law.

The difference there is that Ramsay, Cercei, and Walder Frey are quite clearly horrible people and are antagonists in the series, whereas Dany has always been portrayed as a pretty decent person and is one of the chief protagonists, both in books and show. She's supposed to represent a new type of ruler for Westeros, but instead she went right back to the cruelties committed by her father.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Plenty of disrespect to go around. Ramsay was eaten by dogs, They sewed Robbs wolf head on him after killing him when invited to dinner. Never asked for surrender. Ramsay shot a boy in the back. Cersei blew up a church with all her enemies inside including her daughter in law.

The only one of those that even approaches a "lord defeated on the field of battle" is Ramsay being eaten by dogs, and that was by Sansa who was repeatedly raped and abused by him. She was punishing him for the rape and abuse, not just because he was a battlefield foe.

I think Danaerys may have spent too long in Essos....

 

[Jack Brickman]

The only one of those that even approaches a "lord defeated on the field of battle" is Ramsay being eaten by dogs, and that was by Sansa who was repeatedly raped and abused by him. She was punishing him for the rape and abuse, not just because he was a battlefield foe.

I think Danaerys may have spent too long in Essos....

Yeah, lest we forget, Ramsay had a history of torture, rape, psychological abuse, and was just all around a completely reprehensible human being. Thus, no one shed a tear when he died badly because he absolutely deserved to die even worse.

 

[Cavatt]

The only one of those that even approaches a "lord defeated on the field of battle" is Ramsay being eaten by dogs, and that was by Sansa who was repeatedly raped and abused by him. She was punishing him for the rape and abuse, not just because he was a battlefield foe.

I think Danaerys may have spent too long in Essos....

Yeah wasn't she really brutal to the slave masters?

 

[Jack Brickman]

Yeah wasn't she really brutal to the slave masters?

She was, but only after they killed child slaves and strung them up on each mile on her route to their city. And even then, many of her advisers questioned that decision and told her it was unduly harsh, even if it was deserved.

 

[Cavatt]

She was, but only after they killed child slaves and strung them up on each mile on her route to their city. And even then, many of her advisers questioned that decision and told her it was unduly harsh, even if it was deserved.

Also totally fine with her brother being molten golded to death. Yeah there is some precedence. I think she is pretty cruel

 

[Jack Brickman]

Also totally fine with her brother being molten golded to death. Yeah there is some precedence. I think she is pretty cruel

To be fair, she did everything she could to protect her brother, but when he put the knife to her stomach when she was pregnant that was basically the final straw for her.

 

[Chris]

She was, but only after they killed child slaves and strung them up on each mile on her route to their city. And even then, many of her advisers questioned that decision and told her it was unduly harsh, even if it was deserved.

Except she ended up just blindly crucifying a bunch of the Masters, even ones who voted against the murder of those children....

Not trying to defend the Masters, obviously, but Dany does have precedent of rash shows of force that backfire. I'm actually pretty pro-Dany, but after burning the Tarlys I'm really wondering if they are going to make her a tragic figure at the end of the day rather than the messiah we were led to believe she was.

 

[Chris]

Also, again, I don't think Randyll is a particularly quality human being, but is his xenophobia really that hard to understand? He lays it out pretty clearly. Dany, to him, is a foreign invader who brings dragons, slave soldiers, and Dothraki (who are viewed as savages and let's be honest, they are) to Westeros to wage a war of conquest.

How exactly do you expect her to be viewed by a guy like Tarly?

 

[Sebastian]

The only one worthy of the throne is Jon.

 

[Cavatt]

Whoever gets the throne, it is going to be hollow victory where everyone they know is dead.