• Changing RCF's index page, please click on "Forums" to access the forums.

The unofficial Obamacare thread...

Do Not Sell My Personal Information
"Every movement that seeks to enslave a country, every dictatorship or potential dictatorship, needs some minority group as a scapegoat which it can blame for the nation's troubles and use as a justification of its own demands for dictatorial powers. In Soviet Russia, the scapegoat was the bourgeoisie; in Nazi Germany, it was the Jewish people; in America, it is the businessmen."


“I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.”

--Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
 
It is most likely going to turn into a colossal fuck up which in turn will give way to a single payer system....which is what they wanted all along.

Which would be great.. but won't happen.. Obamacare is nothing like a single-payer system and they went out of their way to make sure it will almost certainly be corporate based until something dramatically changes in this country.
 
so i guess ill be the one to point out that for the first time in 40 years the cost of health care for the consumer decreased last month. thats a big fucking deal.

would have preferred single payer by a lot. but this is a start.
 
so i guess ill be the one to point out that for the first time in 40 years the cost of health care for the consumer decreased last month. thats a big fucking deal.

would have preferred single payer by a lot. but this is a start.



  • Roughly six million of the 19 million people with individual health policies will pay more. Single adults age 21-29 will be walloped with a 46% increase.

  • Three million people will lose their insurance altogether, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) projects.

  • Six million will have to pay the individual tax mandate penalty in 2016 because they don't want or won't be able to afford coverage.

  • People that have insurance via an employer could have their plan dropped as a result of increasing rates. By 2019 (five years into Obamacare), an estimated 12 million people who would have had an offer of employment-based coverage under prior law will lose their offer, the CBO reports.

  • Health insurers will need to increase premiums between 1% and 9%.
 
so i guess ill be the one to point out that for the first time in 40 years the cost of health care for the consumer decreased last month. thats a big fucking deal.

would have preferred single payer by a lot. but this is a start.

We get lower prices, but we lost the freedom to live without paying corporations thousands of dollars every year simply because we are alive?

I'd rather pay higher premiums.. Gov't made a power grab, and in exchange the health insurance companies decided to stop raping us? C'mon man, see this for what it is... fucking shell game.
 
The tax for not having care is basically a joke. I mean it's like 1%, then 2%, then 2.5%. If you make 30k, and lets face it, if you made much more than that you'd probably have a job that pays insurance, you're looking at 300, then 600, then 750/person. If you can't afford insurance, paying the penalty will clearly be the way to go.

Anyways, if this thing is as huge of a clusterfuck as it seems to be, I going to go out on a limb and suggest that the vast majority of it will be eliminated within a year or two.
 
The tax for not having care is basically a joke. I mean it's like 1%, then 2%, then 2.5%. If you make 30k, and lets face it, if you made much more than that you'd probably have a job that pays insurance, you're looking at 300, then 600, then 750/person. If you can't afford insurance, paying the penalty will clearly be the way to go.

Anyways, if this thing is as huge of a clusterfuck as it seems to be, I going to go out on a limb and suggest that the vast majority of it will be eliminated within a year or two.

Here is the joke, if you make 30k and can't afford health care they assume you can afford a fine? I mean yes you are correct the fine is less, but really that fine only negatively impacts the ppl its suppose to be protecting.
 
The tax for not having care is basically a joke. I mean it's like 1%, then 2%, then 2.5%. If you make 30k, and lets face it, if you made much more than that you'd probably have a job that pays insurance, you're looking at 300, then 600, then 750/person. If you can't afford insurance, paying the penalty will clearly be the way to go.

Anyways, if this thing is as huge of a clusterfuck as it seems to be, I going to go out on a limb and suggest that the vast majority of it will be eliminated within a year or two.

Think you're missing the point regarding the legality of the individual mandate and what it means for Americans going forward. Obama has expanded the role of government even more so than George W. Bush. It's very upsetting.
 
The bill is garbage. People act like zomg the tax/penalty for not having insurance is some huge amount. In reality it's a token amount for now. In the future, admittedly it could increase as well. I was freaking out about this huge penalty I'd have to pay cause I'm self employed and don't have insurance. But hopefully I will have a real job before 3 years once the penalties increase.
 
The bill is garbage. People act like zomg the tax/penalty for not having insurance is some huge amount. In reality it's a token amount for now. In the future, admittedly it could increase as well. I was freaking out about this huge penalty I'd have to pay cause I'm self employed and don't have insurance. But hopefully I will have a real job before 3 years once the penalties increase.

It's not about the money...

You really don't know why people object to the individual mandate? You think it's because they don't want to pay a couple hundred bucks? Seriously?

I swear, I'm not saying that to sound condescending, but we've been talking about Obamacare for 5 years now, and prior to it's passing it was the largest topic in the news (along with the economy) for almost 8 months straight. It was the single topic that gave rise to the Tea Party Movement.

You really owe it to yourself to understand the issues behind why many people, including myself a former Obama campaign employee, are opposed to the current implementation of Obamacare. Many Americans, those who voted for him and those who didn't, feel betrayed by the outcome of the Administration's closed-door negotiations with the health insurance providers and Big Pharma.

He did exactly what he said he would never do (individual corporate mandate; closed door negotiations) and what he blasted Clinton (and later Romney) for during the campaigns. Guy's a hypocrite that has proven he'll say anything to get elected.
 
...which is pretty much what dictators do.
 
Ohio Dept. Of Insurance: Obamacare To Increase Individual-Market Health Premiums By 88 Percent

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapot...ividual-market-health-premiums-by-88-percent/

Democrats continue to try to dismiss the evidence that Obamacare will dramatically increase the cost of insurance for people who buy it on their own. But on Thursday, the Ohio Department of Insurance announced that, based on the rates submitted by insurers to date, the average individual-market health insurance premium in 2014 will come in around $420, “representing an increase of 88 percent” relative to 2013. “We have warned of these increases,” said Lt. Gov. Mary Taylor in a statement. “Consumers will have fewer choices and pay much higher premiums for their health insurance starting in 2014.”

The rates that Ohio reported are proposed rates; the Department of Insurance still has to formally approve them. “A total of 14 companies proposed rates for 214 plans to the Department. Projected costs from the companies for providing coverage for the required [by Obamacare] essential health benefits ranged from $282.51 to $577.40 for individual health insurance plans.”

It’s called “rate shock,” but it’s not shocking to people who understand the economics of health insurance. In August 2011, Milliman, one of the nation’s leading actuarial firms, predicted that Obamacare would increase individual-market premiums in Ohio by 55 to 85 percent. This past March, the Society of Actuaries projected that the law would increase premiums in that market by 81 percent. Like good players on “The Price is Right,” they both came in just under the Dept. of Insurance’s figure.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/QqONZAN_Us0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

What are the drivers of the increase? According to Milliman, the two biggest drivers are (1) risk pool composition changes, such as forcing the young to subsidize the old, and the healthy to subsidize the sick; and (2) Obamacare’s required expansion of insurance benefits, particularly its mandated reductions in deductibles and co-pays.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/VaW-2IKSwlg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

This is a significant concept to understand. Some people have the impression that the main reason that rates are going up under Obamacare is because of the law’s requirement that insurers cover people with pre-existing conditions. But that accounts for only a fraction—around a quarter—of the rate hike. The rest comes from all the other things that Obamacare does, such as forcing people to buy richer insurance benefits; to buy products with all sorts of add-ons they might not need; to pay Obamacare’s premium tax; and to pay a lot more, if they’re young, to subsidize older individuals.

There is an important difference between these analyses and the one I conducted for California last week. Ohio has reported average premiums across the individual market, for everyone; for California, I looked at the lowest-priced individual-market plans for 25- and 40-year-old men, both pre- and post-Obamacare. We’ll need to go through Ohio’s individual rate filings, especially after they’ve been approved by the state, to get a more detailed sense of what is going on.

But the bottom line is this: President Obama and then-House Speaker Nancy Pelosi promised that premiums would go down for those who already have insurance. And yes, for those lower-income folks who benefit from the subsidies provided by other taxpayers, the costs they see may go down. But middle-class Ohioans will pay more in taxes to pay for those subsidies, and more in premiums. It will be interesting to see how those Ohioans feel about that.

UPDATE 1: Dave Dysinger, who runs a growing manufacturing business in Dayton, is worried about being subjected to the employer mandate as premiums in Ohio rise, according to the Dayton Daily News:

“Dave Dysinger of the Dayton-based precision machine business, Dysinger Inc., said business is booming, putting pressure on the firm with just under 50 employees to expand its workforce.

But if the company crosses the 50-worker threshold, it would be forced to comply with the provisions of the health care law or pay a fine.

The cost of insurance could skyrocket if Dysinger brings on a fresh new crop of younger workers, but the law would limit how much of that cost he could pass onto his employees in the form of deductibles, co-payments, and coinsurance.

“I am very concerned about what’s going to happen with the cost of health care,” Dysinger said. “But I’m going to save my whining until I actually see what’s going to happen.”

UPDATE 2: For those who are curious about the details of the Society of Actuaries’ estimate about pre-ACA insurance costs (which were cited by the Ohio Department of Insurance), the SOA calculated that “average costs in the non-group market” pre-ACA were $223 per month. The SOA estimates that post-ACA, non-group coverage will cost $403 per month, an increase of 81 percent.

According to SOA, that $223 figure reflects a risk pool in which 21.4 percent had a chronic condition. 1.7 percent of non-group individuals who were “high risk” were outside of that pool. If you incorporate them, the average cost goes up to $254; this leads to a premium increase of 59 percent by the SOA estimates. In other words, 22 percent of the absolute increase is due to guaranteed issue, and 59 percent is due to other factors.

There is one issue to nail down with the Ohio Dept. of Insurance’s figures. The Society of Actuaries data appears to describe medical costs; the Dept. of Insurance figures appear to describe rates. Rates include administrative costs, medical costs do not. If we assume an administrative cost ratio of 20 percent, the SOA baseline would be closer to $279, which means that the rate shock would be around 51 percent, not 88 percent.

UPDATE 3: According to a spokesman for Lt. Gov. Taylor, the Ohio Dept. of Insurance figures do not include administrative costs, resolving the concern I raised in the last paragraph of Update 2. From the spokesman:

“The rates we released last week were index rates pulled from the filings after they were submitted to the Department of Insurance. These index rates only include the projected claims [per member per month] by the carriers for covering the essential health benefits. Administrative costs, risk adjustment, reinsurance, and fees were not included in the index rates we used to form our average that we then compared to the SOA baseline number.

We felt this was the fairest comparison we could make with the information we have at this time.

UPDATE 4: Philip Klein notes that plans on eHealthInsurance.com, with comparable features to those of Obamacare’s bronze plans, are far cheaper pre-ACA:

“Ohio regulators also announced that, “Projected costs from the companies for providing coverage for the required essential health benefits ranged from $282.51 to $577.40 for individual health insurance plans.” That means that the cheapest plan available under Obamacare in Ohio will be $282.51.

But according to a search of eHealthInsurance.com, a 26 year-old living in Cleveland, Ohio, could currently purchase an Anthem SmartSense Plus plan for $89.45 per month. That’s less than a third of the cost of the lowest Obamacare rate, as reported by Ohio regulators, and the annual out of pocket expenses for the Anthem plan are $6,000 — which is less than Obamacare’s bronze option.

In fact, under the current system, the same hypothetical 26 year-old could purchase a Medical Mutual plan with a $2,500 annual out of pocket limit, for $188.41 per month — still significantly cheaper than the least expensive Obamacare option.
 

Rubber Rim Job Podcast Video

Episode 3-14: "Time for Playoff Vengeance on Mickey"

Rubber Rim Job Podcast Spotify

Episode 3:14: " Time for Playoff Vengeance on Mickey."
Top