"True" PG or Combo Guard?

[The George]

basically any one who can hit shots better than Eric and play better defense than Damon and we will be in great

 

[beauf5]

I think there are alot of knowledgeable dudes (your's truely included) that could come up with better stuff than some fot he so called "experts"

I think the basketball IQ of this site is higher than almost everyone in the Knicks organization but alot of the analysts and what not as well

:chuckles: Agree 100% George.

 

[LyXo]

I'm not sure the classic pure PG is needed for the Cavs. I do want a PG who can create and run an offense but the Cavs really don't need a PG who has to do that fulltime.

That's the problem though... We really don't need one full time, yes... but if they aren't full time, then they consistently look for their own shots when they get the ball, claiming they don't get enough touches. We need someone who brings the ball up on every possession and makes the decision on who the ball goes to, what play gets called, etc. Without a true PG, it becomes one-on-one at every position... I think our team will benefit if we have a true PG that brings the team together on offense.

 

[ootbttnlagitnbasf]

i think that our biggest need at point guard is someone who can carry the ball handling load during the regular season. in the playoffs and other big games, Lebron will take over, but we wear him out too much because we have him handling the ball against the clippers and knicks. that boy needs to stop playing forty minutes a game and get some rest for the long playoff push.

i think snow is our best bet. we can't trade for andre miller because he's a free agent and we'll be over the cap. it wouldn't work to do a pair of s&t with gooden and miller, because denver already has a surplus of power forwards who have or who soon have big contracts. we can't trade gooden for ben gordon. we'd have to take back a horrible contract in return because gooden will make about five million more than gordon this season. same thing with chris duhon. we could trade varejao to milwauke for maurice williams, but that would be a bad move on our part. williams is not that talented. gooden for williams wouldn't work, because we'd have to take on another contract.

face it, there are obstacles that will make it hard for ferry to get the pg that we need. maybe he has his eyes on someone from euro-ball who can step in and help right away like charlie bell did with milwauke and andres nocioni did with chicago. there is a lot of pg talent out there.

 

[Jon]

Sarunas was the hands down best player in Euroball and he couldn't step-in as Indiana's PG. I agree that it won't necessarilly be easy, but if we have to roll the dice, hopefully we hedge our bets. Frankly we can get more out of what we got if we simply go in to next season with everyone healthy, a year under their belts, and most importantly if they dedicate some time to draw up and practice some plays.

 

[classic]

Hey, Smooth32 you stole my poll from the Cavs.com forum lol.:chuckles:

I would vote the same here as I did there.

I think this team with Larry and LBJ needs a guy to help bring the ball up the floor, shoot and defend. He doesn't need to be Steve Nash. So I'd go with the combo guard.

I don't understand the theory of having another guy to penetrate with Larry and LBJ both slashing.

We've seen what happend with the DJ and Snow experiment.:thumbdown

So I'm still looking for Damon Snow. Just a guy who can bring the ball up the floor shoot and defend.

Guys like Douby, Shannon Brown, Foye(not going to happen I know).

The defense on guys like Sergio and Farmar worry me. Plus it really seems that alot of the combo guards are simply better shooters than the more "pure" pg's in this draft.

Rondo would be fine if he could hit his own hand with a jumpshot.:thumbdown

 

[The George]

hey classic.....welcome to the good side my man

there are only a few good posters left on cavs.com....you happen to be one of them and I look foreward to having your input on the best team site around

its about time you came over

 

[PIP]

I'm warming up to the notion of Farmar leading our team... I think.

 

[The George]

Pip you are gettin out of control with the Farmar madness

 

[Style]

As Smooth and now classic said, what we need is a guy who can shoot and defend. Let me add to that a guy who is quick. IMO you're never going to be completely satisfied with a point guard who isn't quick.

The problem with Farmer is quickness and defense, so he's out. The Bruin blinders must be in full effect with Lepip on Farmer. That, or this is another Sun ruse, b/c I know Pip is all about defense and athleticism.

Douby is a nice, nice choice. If we get him, I'll be elated. He's not Rondo quick, but quick enough. Plus he defends and has mad offensive skills. I have strong doubts that he'll still be around come pick 25 though.

Dee Brown is actually one of the better PGs in the draft when you look only at the three categories of shooting, defense, and quickness. My only concern with him would be his size on defense, when bigger pgs try to muscle him up. In the short term, we could always mix and match with Snow. Sub in Snow to guard the strong points and Brown to guard the quick ones. In the long term, you hope that Brown can add some size and strength and not lose his quickness. If Ferry decided to go with the Brazilion in round 1 and Brown in round 2 (assuming he fell that far), I'd also be pretty elated.

The problem is I don't see Douby falling to 25 nor Brown falling to 42 (and I don't want Brown at 25).

 

[PIP]

Style,

I've already concluded that my first choice (Douby) will be off the board..Thus, I am selling out to that Alma mater..

The defense and athleticism that I crave goes out the window every year when you know who is on our roster...:chuckles:

 

[Smooth]

The problem with Farmer is quickness and defense, so he's out. The Bruin blinders must be in full effect with Lepip on Farmer. That, or this is another Sun ruse, b/c I know Pip is all about defense and athleticism.

Actually, Farmar tested out pretty well in the "combine" of the NBA Draft. He was the #12 overall athlete there:

He was the 1st in vertical leap [42i nches], 4th in no step vertical leap [33.5 inches], tied 8th for bench press [11], 7th in lane agility [11.07 seconds] and 3rd in 3/4 court sprint [3.17 seconds].

Here is the article from ESPN:

Combine results: Best athletesposted: Friday, June 16, 2006 | Feedback | Print Entry

While the height and weight measurements from the NBA predraft camp are interesting and relevant, NBA GMs and scouts also spend a lot of time dissecting the results of the NBA physical combine.

Last year Joey Graham (Raptors) rated as the top athlete in the draft, boosting his draft stock. Rashad McCants (Timberwolves) and Luther Head (Rockets) also finished in the top 10 and saw a nice little bump to their stock, too.


Players are asked to bench press 185 pounds as many times as they can, test their vertical jump two ways (no step and maximum) and run several drills to measure speed and lateral quickness.


For the fourth straight year Insider has obtained this confidential report from a league source.


North Carolina's David Noel tested as the top athlete in the draft. He was followed by Arkansas' Ronnie Brewer, Louisiana Lafayette's Dwyane Mitchell, Michigan's Daniel Horton, Memphis' Rodney Carney, Villanova's Randy Foye, Louisville's Taquan Dean, Georgetown's Brandon Bowman, Maryland's Nik Caner-Medley and UNLV's Louis Amundson.


St. Louis' Ian Vouyoukas, Denver's Yemi Nicholson, Bradley's Patrick O'Bryant, Oklahoma State's Frans Steyn and Texas' Brad Buckman tested as the worst athletes in the draft.


UCLA's Jordan Farmar shocked everyone by recording the biggest maximum vertical with a whopping 42 inches. Five other players jumped 40 or more inches in the maximum vertical jump: Mitchell (41.5), Brewer (41), UConn's Rudy Gay (40.5), Washington's Brandon Roy (40.5) and Iowa State's Will Blalock (40). Nicholson (26) and UConn's Marcus Williams (28) had the two worst scores in the camp.


Hartford's Kenny Adeleke and Gonzaga's J.P. Batista tested as the strongest athletes in the camp. They both bench pressed a 185-pound bar 26 times. Three other players got the bar up 20 or more times: Duke's Shelden Williams (25), Bowman (24) and Cincinnati's Eric Hicks (20). Memphis' Shawne Williams tested the worst with zero reps.


In the lane agility testing, Horton had the best score, finishing the drill in 10.35 seconds. Foye and Dean tied for second at 10.53 seconds. Noel and Illinois' James Augustine (10.54) also tested very fast. Nicholson had the worst score (13.7 seconds).


In the three-quarter-court sprints, Carney led the way in a blinding 3.06 seconds. Noel (3.07), George Washington's Danilo Pinnock (3.08) and Charlotte's Curtis Withers (3.1) also tested well. Nicholson came in last again (3.72).


Here's a look at how the top players in the draft performed in every category:


COMBINE RESULTS
Player Rank No step
vertical Max
vertical Bench
press Lane
agility Sprint
Maurice Ager 37 29.5 35 11 11.73 3.22
LaMarcus Aldridge 68 26.5 34 8 12.02 3.43
Hilton Armstrong 67 28.5 31.5 13 12.28 3.53
Ronnie Brewer 2 35 41 19 11.32 3.14
Rodney Carney 5 32 38.5 10 10.57 3.06
Mardy Collins 33 31.5 37.5 9 12 3.27
Jordan Farmar 12 33.5 42 11 11.07 3.17
Randy Foye 6 32 38 14 10.53 3.23
Rudy Gay 26 33 40.5 9 11.03 3.32
Aaron Gray 75 26.5 30.5 17 12.63 3.71
Adam Morrison 59 25.5 30.5 11 11.46 3.37
Patrick O'Bryant 79 26.5 30 13 12.68 3.63
J.J. Redick 51 27.5 33 6 10.94 3.29
Brandon Roy 30 34 40.5 6 11.13 3.27
Saer Sene 72 28.5 31 7 12.52 3.38
Cedric Simmons 20 30.5 35 15 11.05 3.31
Tyrus Thomas 21 34 39.5 8 11.36 3.2
Marcus Williams 73 24.5 28 4 11.3 3.4
Shawne Williams 57 32 31 0 10.69 3.3
Shelden Williams 31 29 33.25 25 11.53 3.59


Analysis: The big winner here is obviously Brewer, who tested much better than expected in the vertical jump and strength categories. Combine that with his excellent measurements, and it looks like Brewer could move up in the draft. You don't find that combination of size, strength and athleticism in a guard very often. His so-so lane agility test was the only thing that hurt him, but given his size the score isn't bad.


Farmar also should get a big boost from his combine results. No one -- and I mean no one -- expected him to top out the vertical jump testing. He also tested well in the strength department. His speed scores were a little on the average side for a point guard, but given the type of game that he plays, this was a win for Farmar.


People have been saying Foye is a poor man's Dwyane Wade. How does the tale of the tape between the two compare athletically? Here's a look at Foye compared to Wade's 2003 testing:


TALE OF THE TAPE: WADE VS. FOYE
Height Weight Wingspan Standing
reach Max vert Bench Lane agility Sprint
Wade 6-5 212 6' 10¾" 8' 6" 35 9 10.56 3.08
Foye 6-3½ 212 6' 6¼" 8' 1" 38 14 10.53 3.23



Wade is considerably bigger when you add wingspan and standing reach to the equation. Foye jumps higher and is stronger. Both have similar lateral quickness, but where Wade really shines is in the sprint. That score would've been good for third place in this draft class.

Gay, Thomas and Carney have been billed as the best athletes in the draft, and their scores certainly verified that. What was a little more surprising was Roy. He's been billed as an average athlete, but he tested better than expected -- especially his 40.5-inch vertical.


As we reported earlier, Redick tested better than you'd think in just about every category except strength. He is by no means a great athlete, but he's not a bad one, either.


Five top players really took a huge hit in the testing.


Marcus Williams tested dead last among all guards in the draft. Guys like Gerry McNamara, Carl Krauser and even Mardy Collins tested better. When several GMs called him a below-average NBA athlete, they weren't kidding.


Collins didn't fare so well himself. The lane agility score of 12 seconds is awful for a guy trying to play guard.


O'Bryant also tested poorly for a guy who looks so athletic out there. He tested as the 18th-best center at his position. That's not good. His vertical jump, lane agility and sprint were all poor. That was a major surprise.


Texas' LaMarcus Aldridge is athletic but he pales in comparison to LSU's Tyrus Thomas in almost every category. Aldridge ended up being ranked 28th out of 33 power forwards in the draft.


Gonzaga's Adam Morrison also didn't do anything to dispel talk that he's not a great athlete. Only one true small forward, Marquette's Steve Novak, tested worse. The only thing that saved Morrison from sinking to last place was a good showing in the bench press.


One note: A number of potential first-rounders were either not invited to the combine or were unable to attend, so we don't have their scores. They include Italy's Andrea Bargnani, Kentucky's Rajon Rondo, Villanova's Kyle Lowry, Michigan State's Shannon Brown, Switzerland's Thabo Sefolosha, Ukraine's Olexsiy Pecherov, Florida State's Alexander Johnson, Miami's Guillermo Diaz, Rutgers' Quincy Douby, Cincinnati's James White, UConn's Josh Boone, Colorado's Richard Roby and Texas' Daniel Gibson.

Link

 

[PIP]

Marcus Williams with a 28 ? I could have gotten a 28 when I was 13..

 

[Style]

Smooth, I never said that hops was one of the "have to have" categories. They don't hurt, certainly, but in my PGs I require quickness. Farmer has average speed and below average quickness (ie. first step, acceleration).

 

[Smooth]

Marcus Williams with a 28 ? I could have gotten a 28 when I was 13..

That's at the max too... :chuckles:

The thing that really surprised me was that Ronnie Brewer was the 2nd best athlete in the draft, and Patrick O'Bryant was 79th.

It was funny that Farmar beat Tyrus Thomas in every category except no step vertical.