Trump's Presidency

[The Oi]

I'm genuinely asking for examples here because, to this point, I've really only seen the media take things HE'S said and discuss them.

And I'm telling you that this is because that is what the media wants you to see or what you are willfully seeing because it suits your viewpoint of Trump.

Remember...I am NOT a Trump supporter. I am just somebody who is sick of our bullshit media and enjoy seeing them get checked and exposed.

It's not just things he's said but rather things associated with and related to him.

Much of the footage at his campaigns was spliced dishonestly to appear as if his attendees were just randomly beating the shit out of people without being instigated.

There have been MULTIPLE asinine reports, including the recent documents from the supposed British intelligence agent that have been floated in attempts to further destroy his credibility.

There were all of the sexual harrassment and rape accusations of which nothing came, presumably because there was nothing to them and were just more character assassination.

Bannon was called a "white nationalist" with tenuous proof at best.

I don't have the energy or desire to go back through his twitter feed and debate footage and cross reference them to MSM member twitter feeds, but things he has said and done have been taken out of context so many times.

He's a buffoon. But our media is fucking garbage and you should want him to call them out on it.

 

[Cavatt]

Relax. It's a joke.

He stated a fact. They littered.
You stated an alternative (different) fact. It was political speech.
I thought, haha, a "alternative fact". In light of the stupidity of that statement being made, that term was funny. So I posted it. I recognized it might be taken poorly, so I put a smiley face after it. You know, to indicate a joke.

To go beyond the joke though, if you want my actual opinion. You're both right (that's why I cede you both said facts). It is littering and political speech. There's a level of irony to it that you have to see, but it would be more ironic if it were an actual protest about environmental rights.

In the future though, what do I need to do to illustrate a comment is a joke if a smiley face doesn't do it? How many pieces of LOL flare does my post need to be taken with positive intent?

**EDIT**

Bolded above to highlight this edit. That after reading it back to myself is potentially ambiguous. I did NOT mean your statement was stupid. I meant the original "alternative fact" statement made by Conway was stupid. Please don't infer offense there, none was intended.

That's good. We are good. I am really hating the alternative facts bullshit is all. I liked this instance of littering just like I liked that Nazi getting punched. My grandpa used to kill Nazis and he is my hero.

 

[Wrathe]

If I missed this upthread I apologize, but I have to ask you: Do you agree that Sean Spicer was giving "alternative facts", and do you support Conway for saying it? Do you believe there is such a thing as "alternative facts"? I'm not attacking, I'm honestly interested to see how hardcore Trump supporters feel about that.

It's blowing my mind, but we all know I'm a snow flake.

I'm not a Trump supporter, I just lean more conservative in many views. I think the global viewership was probably a legitimate claim. Technology advancements in streaming and such combined w/ global interest probably did make it the largest viewed globally.

I would personally not make any empirical statements without non subjective metrics to back it up. Pictures with random time stamps, angles, whatever are a bit too soft, but I'm a data guy. I'm also a Browns fan and know how camera angles can be used to get 9 yard first downs.

If the intent was to truly lie, then shame on Spicer. If it was spirited hyperbole being blown out of proportion, then shame on the media. Alternative fact's alone isn't really anything to outrage over. Now if someone says, "I'm not lying, I'm just giving you alternative facts", that'd be pretty hilarious. I think both sides are reaching and over a topic that's largely irrelevant aside from the precedent. That precedent isn't new, and it's not partisan.

 

[Notorious]

I was wrong that it didn't appear on money, but it was only on some coins before 1957.

I'm sorry about that. I was wrong. It was more nuanced than I thought, but George Washington didn't make it so.

I'm a scientist, I don't really care if you believe it. Do you believe in evolution or quantum mechanics? Trump has no expertise in these matters.

I'm concerned about it, and I think companies that pollute need to pay their costs of doing business and I want them to take responsibility for theesses they make.

We have changed our act drastically in the last 50 years. I'm an engineer, it's all but impossible to really polute or cause major harm today. Companies spend billions on doing things correctly to have the least environmental impact. If they didn't they would be fined out of existence. China and India are the real threat at the moment. They are just coming into their industrial revolutions and they are 10 times our current size.

If you are a scientist you should be well versed in the fact that the US isn't gonna make much impact over the next 100 years one way or the other. I guess you feel that India and China have the right to act like we did in the 1950's to have quick and cheap advancement? That is what they are arguing for. The right to do what we did. We are long past those days here.

 

[Cavatt]

We have changed our act drastically in the last 50 years. I'm an engineer, it's all but impossible to really polute or cause major harm today. Companies spend billions on doing things correctly to have the least environmental impact. If they didn't they would be fined out of existence. China and India are the real threat at the moment. They are just coming into their industrial revolutions and they are 10 times our current size.

If you are a scientist you should be well versed in the fact that the US isn't gonna make much impact over the next 100 years one way or the other. I guess you feel that India and China have the right to act like we did in the 1950's to have quick and cheap advancement? That is what they are arguing for. The right to do what we did. We are long past those days here.

They copy us. China copies us. Remember when they made an orbit of the earth and they celebrated the fuck out of it. If we go green, you think they won't try to outdo us?

It will be like phone lines in Africa. Nobody is putting up hard lines, they are putting up cell towers because starting at the beginning is pointless.

That is why I don't like conservatism. They want to go back to the old ways of doing things. I want to do things smarter. Oil and gas are on their way out anyway. Let's kick ass and invest in those jobs now

 

[bcort]

Is political speech in this case. It's like saying the graffiti on the Berlin Wall was vandalism.

Oh, thanks for clearing that up. I thought it was littering.

 

[Notorious]

I'm not a Trump supporter, I just lead more conservative in many views. I think the global viewership was probably a legitimate claim. Technology advancements in streaming and such combined w/ global interest probably did make it the largest viewed globally.

I would personally not make any empirical statements without non subjective metrics to back it up. Pictures with random time stamps, angles, whatever are a bit too soft, but I'm a data guy. I'm also a Browns fan and know how camera angles can be used to get 9 yard first downs.

If the intent was to truly lie, then shame on Spicer. If it was spirited hyperbole being blown out of proportion, then shame on the media. Alternative fact's alone isn't really anything to outrage over. Now if someone says, "I'm not lying, I'm just giving you alternative facts", that'd be pretty hilarious. I think both sides are reaching and over a topic that's largely irrelevant aside from the precedent. That precedent isn't new, and it's not partisan.

One more ground angle so you can see that the white was very visible from the ground angle. Another image used to refute the crowd size.

And again the gigapixel image of the same area.

This was not a camera angle trick. This was outright lying.

 

[Notorious]

They copy us. China copies us. Remember when they made an orbit of the earth and they celebrated the fuck out of it. If we go green, you think they won't try to outdo us?

It will be like phone lines in Africa. Nobody is putting up hard lines, they are putting up cell towers because starting at the beginning is pointless.

That is why I don't like conservatism. They want to go back to the old ways of doing things. I want to do things smarter. Oil and gas are on their way out anyway. Let's kick ass and invest in those jobs now

No they don't want to go back to the old ways. They just want a happy balance that doesn't stifle economic growth. Both can be achieved. The reason China and India won't race us on Green is because they aren't foolish enough to subsidize it like we do. The technology does not make you your money back yet. Solar panels degrade every day they are in use. You will never earn back what you paid in electricity. There are issues with hydro and wind too. They will do Hydro and I believe already do since it is really the only one you get a real benefit from.

They have both also stated that we got a huge industrial leap from being able to polute and they want the same chance we had. That is literally their arguement and what Obama fought China and India on at the global warming conferences he atteneded.

 

[Cavatt]

Oh, thanks for clearing that up. I thought it was littering.

Yeah I know. It's easy to get confused when the outrage machine is going full force.

 

[Kiddo]

Notorious killing it in here. I thinks it's quite dumb of the Trump administration to be talking about the size of the crowd but it's pretty clear CNN and NYTimes are trying their best to undermine his presidency. CNN literally has been unwatchable since Friday morning. It's embarrassing.

 

[Wrathe]

I kind of took it more as the media attempting to deligitamize Trumps support after a week of talking about his low approval ratings from the same genius polsters from the election. MSNBC, NYT, CNN, WAPO, ABC, and NBC showed these mistimed images and commented on the small crowd Trump had all day. My father and I were watching. From the ground view you could see white until about 12:02 from Trumps position. Then it all filled in quickly which is what Spicer said.

The media tweeted, retweeted and ran these images on TV all day. Why wouldn't this administration call them out for lying? I don't want the media misinforming me or lying to me just like I don't want the government doing it either. I'm pretty anti Repub, voting Democrat my entire life until this election. Now Fed up with both sides and like that neither side likes Trump. Must mean he is doing something right because they both bug me. I will always believe that all sides are lying and bias and seek the truth which usually is somewhere in the middle.

Why would you think it's acceptable for the media to present a false narrative on the election size and then get to say why does it matter when it's addressed? How long can they do that before we are all basing our opinions on lies. Doesn't that make us all dumber if we allow that?

I don't think it's acceptable, and I understand how you feel marginalized and attacked for your beliefs. I often feel the same way. The media is going to do what they do right now. Our journalism as it once was is gone, it's media corporations now. It's not about truth, it's about ratings. It's not about providing unbiased facts. Once you realize that they are what they are, what good comes from engaging in it?

Proverbs 26:4 - Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.

If you're not into religious quotes,Mark Twain addressed it as well, “Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.”

 

[Cavatt]

No they don't want to go back to the old ways. They just want a happy balance that doesn't stifle economic growth. Both can be achieved. The reason China and India won't race us on Green is because they aren't foolish enough to subsidize it like we do. The technology does not make you your money back yet. Solar panels degrade every day they are in use. You will never earn back what you paid in electricity. There are issues with hydro and wind too. They will do Hydro and I believe already do since it is really the only one you get a real benefit from.

They have both also stated that we got a huge industrial leap from being able to polute and they want the same chance we had. That is literally their arguement and what Obama fought China and India on at the global warming conferences he atteneded.

I don't believe there are things America can't influence. I don't think doing a good job is a bad idea because other people are doing a bad job. I compete every day with companies that make stuff in China and they make better margins than me, but I have loyal customers that know our product works and it works the best.

 

[col63onel]

“Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.”

I prefer the version "Never argue with an idiot. He'll take you down to his level and beat you with experience"

 

[Otsego Mar]

Which one of you is the thinker and which is the prover?

 

[Notorious]

I don't believe there are things America can't influence. I don't think doing a good job is a bad idea because other people are doing a bad job. I compete every day with companies that make stuff in China and they make better margins than me, but I have loyal customers that know our product works and it works the best.

No one is saying to do a bad job. What conservatives want is for a little toning down of the rules or at least competency in them. Some of which are completely ridiculous. One of the processes we do for my work in a totally different process is really bad to be around. The gasses this process gives off are some of the worst in existence. Our process negates these gasses and is clean. However the EPA says they have determined this process is bad, citing evidence of the other way it is done and make us jump through hoops. That adds 20% cost for our customers. The EPA even came out and tested our process. 0.0% of the gas was detected the way we do it. They still haven't cleared us. All because they don't understand. The old way is bad, ours is not, but we still take 15% longer and 20% more cost to do it the new way because the EPA says so. Many conservatives own business and have these same problems. Which is why they want someone who understands what is actually being done in charge of the EPA vs. lawmakers with no clue and 0 common sense.