Re: Advanced Stats, the Cavs, and Player Evaluation
No PER absolutely does not accurately rank the offensive talents of players.
Ugh..
Again:
Hollinger Stats - Player Efficiency Rating - Qualified Players
RK PLAYER GP MPG TS% AST TO USG ORR DRR REBR PER VA EWA
1 LeBron James, MIA 76 37.9 .640 23.3 9.6 28.2 4.4 20.8 13.1 31.67 909.0 30.3
2 Kevin Durant, OKC 81 38.5 .647 15.5 11.6 27.4 1.8 20.3 11.8 28.35 830.8 27.7
3 Chris Paul, LAC 70 33.4 .594 36.9 8.7 23.9 2.8 10.5 6.7 26.43 537.7 17.9
4 Carmelo Anthony, NY 67 37.0 .560 8.3 8.5 32.2 6.1 15.9 10.8 24.83 530.8 17.7
5 Brook Lopez, BKN 74 30.4 .567 4.8 8.9 26.1 10.8 16.1 13.4 24.81 477.8 15.9
6 Tim Duncan, SA 69 30.1 .554 12.8 10.2 24.8 7.3 29.6 19.1 24.45 401.7 13.4
7 Dwyane Wade, MIA 69 34.7 .571 19.3 10.6 27.0 4.7 12.6 8.9 24.04 483.1 16.1
8 Russell Westbrook, OKC 82 34.9 .532 22.8 10.2 31.2 4.8 11.8 8.6 23.98 554.4 18.5
9 Tony Parker, SA 66 32.9 .588 27.6 9.4 26.6 1.0 9.1 5.3 23.10 392.7 13.1
9 Kobe Bryant, LAL 78 38.6 .570 17.9 10.9 30.0 2.5 13.1 7.9 23.10 566.4 18.9
RK PLAYER GP MPG TS% AST TO USG ORR DRR REBR PER VA EWA
11 James Harden, HOU 78 38.3 .600 18.7 12.1 27.4 2.4 11.9 7.2 23.00 556.9 18.6
12 Blake Griffin, LAC 80 32.5 .572 17.2 10.6 24.0 8.7 21.5 15.2 22.44 424.3 14.1
13 Amar'e Stoudemire, NY 29 23.5 .637 3.4 12.9 22.8 10.0 15.1 12.4 22.16 108.5 3.6
14 Andray Blatche, BKN 82 19.0 .547 8.7 12.6 24.6 12.2 19.6 15.8 21.98 264.0 8.8
15 Anthony Davis, NO 64 28.8 .559 6.8 9.6 19.9 10.5 23.5 16.8 21.80 283.8 9.5
16 Anderson Varejao, CLE 25 36.0 .529 18.2 9.5 17.9 16.9 30.1 23.2 21.71 149.3 5.0
17 Andre Drummond, DET 60 20.7 .578 6.0 11.4 15.6 15.4 27.2 21.2 21.69 205.7 6.9
18 Kyrie Irving, CLE 59 34.7 .553 20.1 11.0 29.2 1.8 10.8 6.1 21.51 321.3 10.7
19 Stephen Curry, GS 78 38.2 .589 23.5 10.5 25.3 2.3 9.1 5.8 21.34 460.2 15.3
20 Brandan Wright, DAL 64 18.0 .606 7.3 6.6 16.8 8.4 16.7 12.6 21.03 178.9 6.0
RK PLAYER GP MPG TS% AST TO USG ORR DRR REBR PER VA EWA
21 Al Jefferson, UTAH 78 33.1 .522 10.2 6.6 23.4 7.0 25.9 16.3 20.99 399.8 13.3
22 John Wall, WSH 49 32.7 .521 26.7 11.2 28.7 2.4 11.2 6.8 20.91 236.9 7.9
23 JaVale McGee, DEN 79 18.1 .589 3.3 12.5 19.1 12.6 17.1 14.9 20.78 217.7 7.3
24 LaMarcus Aldridge, POR 74 37.7 .530 10.6 7.9 24.2 7.2 20.9 14.0 20.45 372.6 12.4
25 Deron Williams, BKN 78 36.4 .574 28.6 10.3 24.9 1.2 8.5 4.8 20.38 397.8 13.3
26 Nikola Pekovic, MIN 62 31.6 .572 5.1 9.7 20.3 13.0 19.0 15.9 20.26 282.3 9.4
27 DeMarcus Cousins, SAC 75 30.5 .524 12.1 13.7 25.9 10.9 27.0 18.7 20.21 328.3 10.9
28 David West, IND 73 33.4 .545 14.0 10.3 23.0 6.8 18.8 12.9 20.15 314.2 10.5
29 Chris Bosh, MIA 74 33.2 .592 9.5 9.9 20.0 7.0 17.6 12.6 20.08 347.3 11.6
30 Paul Millsap, UTAH 78 30.4 .550 14.7 10.1 21.1 8.6 18.8 13.7 19.89 297.4 9.9
Obviously there are some abberations, but the list correlates to what most people would consider the top-30 offensive talents in the league, give or take 5 players. It correctly identifies the top 4 players (imo) with 1-10 (minus Lopez) looking pretty accurate to me too.
Your quote:
No PER absolutely does not accurately rank the offensive talents of players.
Needs to be justified.
In fact, it's time to clearly addresses the even bigger issue with PER which so far not a single pro-PER person has mathematically discussed:
You have not demonstrated one single proof this entire thread. Now is the time to assert an argument? Not on the first page?
even as an offensive metric, PER is bad. It does NOT do a good job of pinpointing who is a good offensive player.
See chart above.. You're so wrong it's funny.
It routinely gives inflated PER numbers to players whose offensive play is preventing the team from winning because they are so terribly inefficient at scoring.
There is no perfect metric, I hope you're not claiming there is one. And can you demonstrate a metric more accurate at identifying the top ten offensive players in the league? Don't ignore this question, I'd like to see what you come up with.
That is the heart and soul of the critique of PER and not a single one of you pro-PER has said much about it. Curious.
Everyone has said tons about it. Myself, Tornicade, Douglar, and others have written pages that debunk your claims. The sources you cite don't even make the assertions you're making and you seem not to understand that the gap between you and your citations must be filled with an argument, analytically, logically or mathematically,
yet you haven't demonstrated an argument at all. It's your thread.