Windy: Sessions traded to LA

[RchfldCavRaised]

This team is also full of a bunch of young guys willing to support and listen to their coach. LeBron had a LARGE role to play in how our team was on the court. Laying all of it on Brown is short-sighted...

...I don't give two shits about Brown, but your analysis is very simplistic.

Ive put quite a few keystrokes into assessing Brown and his coaching styles on this board. I dont remember dueling keyboards with you over Brown while he was here, so I wont start now.

How's that for short and simplistic?

 

[Randolphkeys]

I think had Byron Scott been here instead of Brown back then in 09-10 we would have seen eye dropping offensive stats, efficiency and the some of the purest offensive basketball since the Showtime Lakers. The teams were structured to compliment Bron well on the offensive end, but there was no accountability and he was given too much freedom to establish horrible habits in "walk the ball" up pace.

This team has an attacking offense that plays to our best player's strength, now we just need to add more talent and watch the catalyst and his other developing young teammates mature within that.

Well I was certainly a Mike Brown apologist when he was in charge of the Cavs. I did this for three reasons:

1. He was the best coach available that offseason who would accept the position at the time. I think we can all agree Larry Brown wouldn't have worked out either.

2. We can agree he was an accomplished Xs and Os defensive coach. Maybe not the best in the league, but he is up there. Offensively, Ferry knew how to assemble a drive and dish team modeled after the Spurs, and he needed a coach who would call similar plays.

3. You can't fire the Coach of the Year in the offseason he wins the award, and that was the offseason Brown lost the team's confidence.



Looking back, I will give you one thing, Richfield: I thought he was better at controlling the high priority egos and whack jobs. He seemed to handle the thugged out Indiana Pacers well and he did well with LeBron at first... then it all just went to hell. Again, I think the biggest problem with Mike Brown is that he has developed a "pushover" reputation, and it seems to be following him.

 

[CleveRocks]

Well I was certainly a Mike Brown apologist when he was in charge of the Cavs. I did this for three reasons:

1. He was the best coach available that offseason who would accept the position at the time. I think we can all agree Larry Brown wouldn't have worked out either.

2. We can agree he was an accomplished Xs and Os defensive coach. Maybe not the best in the league, but he is up there. Offensively, Ferry knew how to assemble a drive and dish team modeled after the Spurs, and he needed a coach who would call similar plays.

3. You can't fire the Coach of the Year in the offseason he wins the award, and that was the offseason Brown lost the team's confidence.



Looking back, I will give you one thing, Richfield: I thought he was better at controlling the high priority egos and whack jobs. He seemed to handle the thugged out Indiana Pacers well and he did well with LeBron at first... then it all just went to hell. Again, I think the biggest problem with Mike Brown is that he has developed a "pushover" reputation, and it seems to be following him.

I think Brown was effective at making Lebron care about defense and pounding defensive concepts into him. The basic premis is that if a team with Lebron plays terrific defense, the other team no matter how good on defense cannot stop Lebron on offense, so his "chosen" attributes become more dominant than the team defense. Right this minute Indiana's worst nightmare shows up on the court. defensively he is ridiculous, and offensively you can't stop him but to play physical with him, which is like getting physical with a rhinoceros. S I think Brown had a hand in that.

I don't think Lebron wins more with Scott than brown, even if they score more points. I think the intent of Mike Brown's hire was to get rings fastest way, and that part did not work. Maybe that is on browns offense, maybe that is on the teams chemistry, maybe that is on Lebron himsellf. But I am not second guessing Brown's hire in Cleveland..

 

[TitleTown]

Ive put quite a few keystrokes into assessing Brown and his coaching styles on this board. I dont remember dueling keyboards with you over Brown while he was here, so I wont start now.

How's that for short and simplistic?

Well, at least you're consistent.

So you're telling me that because I didn't debate you two years ago, that your argument stands for itself? :chuckles:

You shouldn't have started the thread in this direction if you weren't going to follow through with it.

 

[Jon]

Well, I think he's assuming those of us who have endlessly debated him on this topic actually remember his arguments from years ago. :O

 

[TyGuy]

I would have fired Brown as soon as Adelman was available. I was calling for that immediately and got hammered on this site at the time.

 

[TitleTown]

I would have fired Brown as soon as Adelman was available. I was calling for that immediately and got hammered on this site at the time.

Wasn't an upgrade then, and isn't an upgrade now. I'd still take Brown over him, but I care about both sides of the ball.

Brown would be great for a young rebuilding team.

Luckily, Scott is MUCH better than both of them.

 

[Zone]

Yes, that's possible now that we have him; but if we never took him on in the first place - the money we never paid him would have been a more valuable asset and our cap space remains a much more valuable asset.

Like I said, the only positive for taking him on that I can think of is that he's a salary placeholder. He will help us reach the min salary threshold next season and then he's off the books. It's basically been 5 years since Luke was a productive player. He has rings and experience on a championship team, but unless he can turn back the clock, I just don't see the value.

Do we get the right to flip picks next year with LAL if we don't take Walton? Does the deal even happen without Walton's inclusion? I'm not sure either one happens.

In a weird way, the presence of Walton's contract on the books might help in leveraging additional assets from a team in exchange for our cap space. If Grant and another GM can't get close enough on an agreement for the pure cap savings, maybe an alternative Grant could offer is for that team to take Walton. At that point, the other GM might see significance in the benefit of pure cap space and accept the initial proposal ... or be willing to place more value on the cap space given the alternative of having to take on Walton

 

[Jon]

Do we get the right to flip picks next year with LAL if we don't take Walton? Does the deal even happen without Walton's inclusion? I'm not sure either one happens.

Sure. Walton was part of the deal as it was constructed, so we can't assume but that's exactly what's being argued by the folks giving the trade a low grade. They think the Lakers would have caved. To me the pick swap isn't just an afterthought, but part of what we wanted out of the deal.

In a weird way, the presence of Walton's contract on the books might help in leveraging additional assets from a team in exchange for our cap space. If Grant and another GM can't get close enough on an agreement for the pure cap savings, maybe an alternative Grant could offer is for that team to take Walton. At that point, the other GM might see significance in the benefit of pure cap space and accept the initial proposal ... or be willing to place more value on the cap space given the alternative of having to take on Walton

Even if that went down, any live body with a contract would suffice.

 

[QuadrupleDouble]

I've always been a MB supporter, and I don't think he should have been canned to try to appease Lebron as the dude didn't commit to us anyway.

You can't bash the guy because he's the best coach this franchise has ever seen as far as record goes. I'm not sold on Scott yet to be honest with you. I have to see what he can do when we have some sort of talent though.

Sure Brown has his shortcomings, but so do all the other coaches that seem to get fired and rehired elsewhere.

 

[Pioneer10]

I'm for one glad I don't have to watch Mike Brown call a timeout when the other team is making a run and keep the same damn players in who were getting toasted out there. Loved having to wait as more possessions would get blown before a personnel move was made.

 

[RchfldCavRaised]

I'm for one glad I don't have to watch Mike Brown call a timeout when the other team is making a run and keep the same damn players in who were getting toasted out there. Loved having to wait as more possessions would get blown before a personal move was made.

Used to make my skin crawl.

Also, I used to have this weird "Gift and Curse" thing going on with the trade deadline. On the one hand, you wanted Ferry to pillage some team at 3:59pm deadline day. But on the other hand, you knew that the team was just now starting to gel with Browns cue card rotations which were tattooed in permanent ink for 30 game increments, and any roster changes would set him back to preseason mode with his experimenting.

I was pulling for him to show improvement this year, and wanted the Lakers to all buy in and show Bron that him stepping on Brown was the real reason our teams imploded come money time in the playoffs... but ultimately, it once again looked like a superstar wing playing ISO on offense and the other players who were talented offensive players in their own right, not giving him the full effort on D because they werent having their numbers called on offense.

 

[RchfldCavRaised]

Wasn't an upgrade then, and isn't an upgrade now. I'd still take Brown over him, but I care about both sides of the ball.

 

[RchfldCavRaised]

Looking back, I will give you one thing, Richfield: I thought he was better at controlling the high priority egos and whack jobs. He seemed to handle the thugged out Indiana Pacers well and he did well with LeBron at first... then it all just went to hell. Again, I think the biggest problem with Mike Brown is that he has developed a "pushover" reputation, and it seems to be following him.

Agreed. I will never understand why he decided the time and place for him to make his stand was with Z for his historic night...

 

[TyGuy]

Wasn't an upgrade then, and isn't an upgrade now. I'd still take Brown over him, but I care about both sides of the ball.

Brown would be great for a young rebuilding team.

Luckily, Scott is MUCH better than both of them.

You are kidding right? Rick Adelman in my opinion is one of the best coaches that has been in the nba the past 25 years or so.